Re: [5gangip] New Version Notification for draft-vonhugo-5gangip-ip-issues-02.txt

Thanks John,

I was not advocating a specific solution but pointing out that something  " BGP like ", i.e. a distributed protocol between islands of 5G would be required rather than another level of hierarchy. My point was that there was no discussion of this item in the document and that since the IETF is pretty good at this sort of thing it would seem that perhaps a discussion of this issue should be in the document. My guess is that the IETF leadership is looking to understand what issues will require new work and then which groups are best suited to deal with them so if you agree that the problem is real and needs addressing then a section on this with some guidance would likely be very useful. 

One quibble, while there may be 100's of billions of 5G devices it is expected that most of them won't require mobility but I agree it's still a daunting problem.

Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Crowcroft [mailto:Jon.Crowcroft@cl.cam.ac.uk] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 4:18 AM
To: AshwoodsmithPeter <Peter.AshwoodSmith@huawei.com>
Cc: sarikaya@ieee.org; 5gangip@ietf.org; Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de; Jon Crowcroft <Jon.Crowcroft@cl.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: [5gangip] New Version Notification for draft-vonhugo-5gangip-ip-issues-02.txt

the idea of using BGP for a network of a trillion devices is truly scary. please think again - the number of ASs will be in the millions - BGP is the wrong paradigm. the level of resource sharing ("peering") and rate of change of customer/provider relationships would simply not work with a) path vector or b) the BGP policy expression mechanisms...

something new is needed. and fast.
> Hey guys,
> 
> Starting to read this over in a bit more depth and had a couple of 
> quick general comments before I dig deeper.
> 
> 1 - The introduction implies that the infrastructure has to be ready 
> to meet 5G needs. This is too late. The 4.5G architecture for things 
> like NB-IOT and highly virtualized cores for EPC will require very 
> similar architectures and one can think of NB-IOT and 4G as slices 
> implemented in the supporting infrastructure.  So we can imagine 
> operators deploying an architecture now that will allow 4G and 5G to 
> co-exist and for resources to be adjusted as required between them as 5G penetrates more and more.
> While I have no idea what will happen with 5G , for 3G to 4G there are 
> radios that do both to ease migration so perhaps the same will happen 
> with 5G?
> 
> 2- There is a conspicuous lack of discussion of front haul and its role. 
> Detnet and its relationship to eCPRI and ROE/1904.3 should be explored. 
> There may well also be ACTN related issues for the analog FH, at a 
> minimum there are auto discovery issues on every fiber and wire 
> irrespective of what they ultimately carry.
> 
> 3- The control hierarchy/orchestration and its interworking when you 
> cease to continue moving up a hierarchy needs to be addressed, I 
> suppose a form of BGP or other peering between autonomous 5G systems 
> would be required because we can't have a master controller for the 5G world.
> 
> Anyway just a few early thoughts.
> 
> Peter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 5gangip [mailto:5gangip-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Behcet 
> Sarikaya
> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 2:53 PM
> To: 5gangip@ietf.org
> Cc: Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de
> Subject: [5gangip] New Version Notification for 
> draft-vonhugo-5gangip-ip-issues-02.txt
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Dirk and I submitted Rev. 02 of 5G IP issues draft.
> Your comments will be appreciated.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Dirk& Behcet
> 
> A new version of I-D, draft-vonhugo-5gangip-ip-issues-02.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Behcet Sarikaya and posted to the 
> IETF repository.
> 
> Name:           draft-vonhugo-5gangip-ip-issues
> Revision:       02
> Title:          Review on issues in discussion of next generation
> converged networks (5G) from an IP point of view Document date:  
> 2017-02-23
> Group:          Individual Submission
> Pages:          18
> URL:
> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-vonhugo-5gangip-ip-issues-0
> 2.txt
> Status:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-vonhugo-5gangip-ip-issues/
> Htmlized:       
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-vonhugo-5gangip-ip-issues-02
> Diff:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-vonhugo-5gangip-ip-issues-02
> 
> Abstract:
>    This document presents considerations related to open and upcoming
>    issues with upcoming new communication systems denoted as 5G aiming
>    to set a basis for documenting problem space, use-cases, and
>    potential solutions related to next-generation network
>    infrastructure.  The draft reviews currently investigated topics,
>    including both inputs from IETF and from other SDOs as well as
>    research activities.  Further the outcome of recent discussions at
>    side sessions during IETF meetings are recaptured to help identifying
>    a starting point for future thoughts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of 
> submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at 
> tools.ietf.org.
> 
> The IETF Secretariat
> 
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