Re: [5gangip] [lisp] Bandwidth savings with LISP

[Behcet Sarikaya <[e-mail]>]

On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 1:06 AM, PEDRO ANDRES ARANDA GUTIERREZ
<[e-mail]> wrote:
> Answers inline, marked with [PA]
>
> It’s my (-) .02 cents
> Best,
> ---
> Dr. Pedro A. Aranda Gutiérrez
>
>
>
> Technology Exploration -
> Network Innovation & Virtualisation
> email: pedroa d0t aranda At telefonica d0t com
> Telefónica, Investigación y Desarrollo
>
> C/ Zurbarán,12
> 28010 Madrid, Spain
>
>
>
> Fragen sind nicht da, um beantwortet zu werden.
> Fragen sind da, um gestellt zu werden.
>
> Georg Kreisler
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: 5gangip <[e-mail]> en nombre de Dino Farinacci <[e-mail]>
> Fecha: martes, 5 de julio de 2016, 20:00
> Para: Ca By <[e-mail]>
> CC: "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, José Ruiz Mas <[e-mail]>, Anton Smirnov <[e-mail]>, LISP mailing list list <[e-mail]>, Jose Saldana <[e-mail]>
> Asunto: Re: [5gangip] [lisp] Bandwidth savings with LISP
>
>> On Friday, July 1, 2016, Dino Farinacci <[e-mail]> wrote:
>> So I have been thinking about a compelling use-case for LISP header-compression and the super-framing feature (sorry for using my own term).
>>
>> I have been told that the Radio Access Network (RAN) tends to be sensitive to overlay solutions due to large headers. I have also heard that there seems to be queuing behavior for the base-stations that send to UEs (i.e. phones). The fact that queuing is happening while waiting for a handoffs to occur can be a good opportunity to pack IP packets into super-frames to send over the RAN.
>>
>> Using this solution means the eNodeB (base-station) and the UE (phone) would have to run LISP. I would like to hear comments from the WG. I have copied 5gangip to see if they have opinions.
>>
>> Dino
>>
>>
>> I dont think this will fly.
>
> I tend to agree.
>
> [PA] Hey folks, 5G is going for slices for many good reasons. One of these is to avoid stacking headers… especially in the RAN.
>
>> LISP is a lot of work and Super Framing / packing is a edge case benefit, especially when layering on top of all the other muck
>
> Let’s not conflate running LISP and super-framing. I think running LISP (but not on the UE) is really an easy deployable solution.


I think we should discuss this further. Why can't we run LISP on UE?
Does it have to run on the host for proper LISP operation?


> That is a separate topic for discussion. This thread was focusing on super-framing.
>
> [PA] No objection to use all these wonderful things you propose in the CORE, but there is a lot of processing before that and there’s where my part kicks in, right? ;-)
>
>> A real benefit that would justify heavy lifting  is replacing the 5G core with an alternative mobility system such as LISP or ILNP.
>
> Right, we will have several presentations at the 5gangip BOF discussing this.
>
> [PA] Hey folks, what does 5G core actually mean? For me it will be the core of the 5G network, which is currently TBD. So instead of thinking about replacing something that does not exist, why don’t we argue that this core part of the future 5G network would benefit for supporting LISP? ;-)
>

Core network is 3GPP terminology, it comes after RAN and it is the
part that connects to the Internet. So the term core network could be
confusing to IETF folks.

Yes, I think that we should discuss the prospects of future 5G core
network would benefit from supporting LISP, but why and how?

Regards,

Behcet
>> http://telecoms.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2016/06/5G-architecture-options.pdf
>>
>> You can see that new core is a green field opportunity to replace the mobility system, which is very high value area.
>
> Yes, I and many are aware of the opportunity.
>
> [PA] Me too, just trying to put things into (yet another) perspective (with no claim to absolute truth or completeness). ;-)
>
> Thanks,
> Dino
>
>>
>> CB
>>
>> > On Jul 1, 2016, at 4:38 AM, Jose Saldana <[e-mail]> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi again, Anton.
>> >
>> > I have just uploaded a new presentation including more ideas and also a section about backward compatibility:
>> >
>> > http://es.slideshare.net/josemariasaldana/header-compression-and-multiplexing-in-lisp
>> >
>> > BR and thanks,
>> >
>> > Jose
>> >
>> >> -----Mensaje original-----
>> >> De: Anton Smirnov [mailto:[e-mail]]
>> >> Enviado el: jueves, 23 de junio de 2016 17:54
>> >> Para: Jose Saldana <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]
>> >> CC: 'José Ruiz Mas' <[e-mail]>
>> >> Asunto: Re: [lisp] Bandwidth savings with LISP
>> >>
>> >>    Hi Jose,
>> >>    there is a theoretical aspect of the work (it's curious) and then there is a practical
>> >> one. For the latter one - section "Backward compatibility" is conspicuously missing
>> >> from the document. On the first glance, it looks like backward compatibility of the
>> >> solution was not investigated. Is this correct?
>> >>
>> >> Anton
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 06/23/2016 11:11 AM, Jose Saldana wrote:
>> >>> Hi all,
>> >>>
>> >>> As you may know, we recently submitted a draft
>> >> (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-saldana-lisp-compress-mux/) with a proposal
>> >> allowing bandwidth and pps reductions.
>> >>>
>> >>> The idea is to send together a number of small packets, which are in the buffer of
>> >> an ITR and have the same ETR as destination, into a single packet. Therefore, they
>> >> will share a single LISP header. And this can be combined with ROHC (header
>> >> compression).
>> >>>
>> >>> We have a running implementation, based on LISPMob
>> >>> (https://github.com/Simplemux/lispmob-with-simplemux), which we have
>> >>> used to run some tests
>> >>>
>> >>> This is a summary of the results.
>> >>>
>> >>> - When small packets (100 bytes) are sent, up to 63% of throughput increase can
>> >> be observed (in our example, we pass from 550kbps to 910kbps).
>> >>>
>> >>> - In the case of securing the LISP tunnel with IPSec, the increase can be 935
>> >> (from 470kbps to 870kbps).
>> >>>
>> >>> You can find more detailed information in this presentation:
>> >>> http://es.slideshare.net/josemariasaldana/header-compression-and-multi
>> >>> plexing-in-lisp
>> >>>
>> >>> Your feedback will be highly appreciated.
>> >>>
>> >>> Best regards,
>> >>>
>> >>> The authors
>> >>>
>> >>>> -----Mensaje original-----
>> >>>> De: lisp [mailto:[e-mail]] En nombre de Jose Saldana
>> >>>> Enviado el: miércoles, 04 de mayo de 2016 18:41
>> >>>> Para: [e-mail]
>> >>>> CC: 'Jose Ruiz Mas' <[e-mail]>
>> >>>> Asunto: [lisp] New draft posted:
>> >>>> draft-saldana-lisp-compress-mux-00.txt
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Hi all,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> We have just posted this draft
>> >>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-saldana-lisp-
>> >>>> compress-mux/.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>               Header compression and multiplexing in LISP
>> >>>>                    draft-saldana-lisp-compress-mux-00
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Abstract
>> >>>>
>> >>>>    When small payloads are transmitted through a packet-switched
>> >>>>    network, the resulting overhead may result significant.  This is
>> >>>>    stressed in the case of LISP, where a number of headers are prepended
>> >>>>    to a packet, as new headers have to be added to each packet.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>    This document proposes to send together a number of small packets,
>> >>>>    which are in the buffer of a ITR, having the same ETR as destination,
>> >>>>    into a single packet.  Therefore, they will share a single LISP
>> >>>>    header, and therefore bandwidth savings can be obtained, and a
>> >>>>    reduction in the overall number of packets sent to the network can be
>> >>>>    achieved.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> A running implementation can be found here:
>> >>>> https://github.com/Simplemux/lispmob-with-simplemux. I has been built
>> >>>> as a fork of lispmob.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The idea is very similar to what was published in this paper:
>> >>>> http://diec.unizar.es/~jsaldana/personal/budapest_ICC_2013_in_proc.pd
>> >>>> f
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Your feedback about the draft will be appreciated.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Thanks in advance,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Jose Saldana
>> >>>> Julián Fernández Navajas
>> >>>> José Ruiz Mas
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> -----Mensaje original-----
>> >>>>> De: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]]
>> >>>>> Enviado
>> >>>>> el: miércoles, 04 de mayo de 2016 18:20
>> >>>>> Para: Jose Ruiz Mas <[e-mail]>; Jose Saldana
>> >>>>> <[e-mail]>; Julian Fernandez Navajas <[e-mail]>
>> >>>>> Asunto: New Version Notification for
>> >>>>> draft-saldana-lisp-compress-mux-00.txt
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> A new version of I-D, draft-saldana-lisp-compress-mux-00.txt
>> >>>>> has been successfully submitted by Jose Saldana and posted to the
>> >>>>> IETF repository.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Name:             draft-saldana-lisp-compress-mux
>> >>>>> Revision: 00
>> >>>>> Title:            Header compression and multiplexing in LISP
>> >>>>> Document date:    2016-05-04
>> >>>>> Group:            Individual Submission
>> >>>>> Pages:            8
>> >>>>> URL:
>> >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-saldana-lisp-compress-mux
>> >>>>> -
>> >>>>> 00.txt
>> >>>>> Status:
>> >>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-saldana-lisp-compress-mux/
>> >>>>> Htmlized:
>> >>>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-saldana-lisp-compress-mux-00
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Abstract:
>> >>>>>    When small payloads are transmitted through a packet-switched
>> >>>>>    network, the resulting overhead may result significant.  This is
>> >>>>>    stressed in the case of LISP, where a number of headers are prepended
>> >>>>>    to a packet, as new headers have to be added to each packet.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>    This document proposes to send together a number of small packets,
>> >>>>>    which are in the buffer of a ITR, having the same ETR as destination,
>> >>>>>    into a single packet.  Therefore, they will share a single LISP
>> >>>>>    header, and therefore bandwidth savings can be obtained, and a
>> >>>>>    reduction in the overall number of packets sent to the network can be
>> >>>>>    achieved.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>> >>>>> submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at
>> >>>>> tools.ietf.org.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> The IETF Secretariat
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> lisp mailing list
>> >>>> [e-mail]
>> >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lisp
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> lisp mailing list
>> >>> [e-mail]
>> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lisp
>> >>>
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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