Re: [Ace] (details on use case scenario?) Re: [Lwip] EDHOC standardization

[Rene Struik <[e-mail]>]

Hi Goran:

As you recall, I suggested to look at some details of 6TiSCH enrollment 
(see my message of March 4, 2019 [1]). During the SecDispatch interim of 
March 5, 2019, this was provided as one use case scenario [2] and 
reiterated in your email of yesterday, March 14, 2019 [3]. Nevertheless, 
details on how this could be realized in practice are still missing.

I had another look at the 6TiSCH minimal security draft [1] (now in 2nd 
WGLC) and the "zero-touch" write-up [5] -- which you both referenced in 
your email [3] of yesterday.

To my understanding, the intention with 6TiSCH is to reuse the protocol 
flows of [4] to implement a public-key based enrollment scheme in the 
future. This seems to be what [5] aims for, if I try and read in between 
the [still unwritten] lines, and the impression I got from some people. 
 From looking at the protocol details, though, I do not understand how 
this can be done in practice. This begs the question what I am missing 
here.

Hence, my question of March 4th on details of use case scenarios still 
stands. In fact, I do not see how one could implement EDHOC on top of 
[4], even if one only uses symmetric-key only variant of EDHOC.

If you could shed some light on this, this would help. Or, should we 
simply abandon that use case as being unrealistic at this point?

Finally, your email [1] suggests "reports of massive breaches with PSK 
provisioning systems". If so, I would strongly suggest having another 
look at [4] and commenting on this.

Ref:
[1] Details on Use Case Scenarios, email RS of March 4, 2019. See 
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ace/On0iIFAb_OWeBqLjlryi1rBHwhk
[2] Slides on EDHOC during SecDispatch meeting of March 5, 2019. See 
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2019-secdispatch-01/materials/slides-interim-2019-secdispatch-01-sessa-edhoc.pdf
[3] Pitch for EDHOC, email Goran Selander of March 14, 2019. See 
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/secdispatch/vNR7nT20fsvYjYXhAPjOpLjZGCU
[4] draft-ietf-6tisch-minimal-security-09
[5] draft-ietf-6tisch-dtsecurity-zerotouch-join-03

On 3/5/2019 9:05 AM, Rene Struik wrote:
> Hi Goran:
>
> Brief feedback below:
>
>
> Something like this is briefly discussed under the benchmarking 
> subject on today’s agenda, but with PSK/RPK ECHDE instead of 
> certificates.
>
> This is an excellent use case where message sizes is expected to have 
> a large impact and simulations can be made, e.g. using 
> https://bitbucket.org/6tisch/simulator/
>
> RS>> My 10-hop enrollment use case was aimed to force consideration of 
> not just abstract "protocol flow arrows", but also effects on the 
> network and its actors. A simple byte-count is not enough...
> <<RS
>
>
> Some things cannot be compressed, like e.g. nonces, they can only be 
> omitted by removing them at design time. Compression algorithms in 
> themselves also add to the footprint. The approach of OSCORE and EDHOC 
> has been to elide redundant information and define a compact format 
> from the start. Do you think a lossless data compression performs better?
>
> The other question I have is whether it would be more important to 
> hide the identity of the joining node in a network enrollment scenario 
> than to hide the network manager's identity, or the other way around.
>
> There are different options to embed EDHOC in CoAP, the first request 
> could be message_1 and the last response just an empty payload. Or the 
> first request can be a trigger and message_1 carried in the first 
> response.
>
> RS>> If the first request is a trigger, one ends up with a four-pass 
> protocol and might as well use the one I that allows parallel key 
> computations and where all byte-counts could possibly fit within 
> frames (see my message on "protocol flows" of October 31, 2018 and 
> John Mattson's response hereto of Feb 19, 2019).
> <<RS
>
> On 3/5/2019 6:41 AM, Göran Selander wrote:
>>
>> Hi Rene,
>>
>> *From: *Rene Struik <[e-mail]>
>> *Date: *Monday, 4 March 2019 at 22:57
>> *To: *John Mattsson <[e-mail]>
>> *Cc: *"[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>, Göran Selander 
>> <[e-mail]>, 'Benjamin Kaduk' <[e-mail]>, 
>> "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>
>> *Subject: *(details on use case scenario?) Re: [Lwip] [Ace] EDHOC 
>> standardization
>>
>> Hi John, Goran:
>>
>> It is not easy to follow the discussion on EDHOC (except for 
>> witnessing a byte-count slinging contest on the mailing list).
>>
>> I think it would be good to look at the big picture, i.e., which 
>> problem does one solve and/or does one solve the right problem.
>>
>> I would like to understand somewhat better how the scheme suggested 
>> in [1] could help in facilitating fast network enrollment and network 
>> formation.
>>
>> Could you describe how to use this in the following scenario:
>>
>> 1) Network with one central manager and N=1,000 nodes that wish to 
>> join the network roughly at the same time, where the network manager 
>> is, say, 10 hops away from the joining nodes;
>>
>> 2) Authenticated key agreement using cert-based key agreement;
>>
>> 3) Network uses time-synchronized scheduling (such as in 6tisch) - 
>> where local single-hop communication time latency is 10 seconds);
>>
>> 4) The network manager may have high-bandwidth with outside world, 
>> but joining node/network manager path uses relatively low-bandwidth 
>> pipe that may only be available intermittently, with preset schedule);
>>
>> 5) It is unknown beforehand which entry point the joining nodes will 
>> pick when trying to enroll to the network?
>>
>> Something like this is briefly discussed under the benchmarking 
>> subject on today’s agenda, but with PSK/RPK ECHDE instead of 
>> certificates.
>>
>> This is an excellent use case where message sizes is expected to have 
>> a large impact and simulations can be made, e.g. using 
>> https://bitbucket.org/6tisch/simulator/
>>
>> While the draft refers to lots of details from other protocols that 
>> are used under the hood, it would be good to abstract from this for 
>> now and describe basics first.
>>
>> We have considered this. Our conclusion at the time was the having a 
>> precise description of an abstract protocol, in addition to the 
>> concrete mapping to COSE would perhaps be more confusing, and instead 
>> we tried to introduce people to CBOR and COSE in Appendix A. 
>> Considering the positive outcome from the CFRG Crypto Panel, I assume 
>> the protocol is sufficient readable for review. Please let us know if 
>> you have further issues reading it.
>>
>> I tend to agree with others that lossless data compression could 
>> result in some savings, with some give and take re encoding rules 
>> (see also [2]). Even if one finds a magic compression bullet at zero 
>> incremental cost, though, the more important question is what problem 
>> one solves and/or whether one solves the right problem. {As an aside, 
>> 802.15.4 (which is the MAC with the 127-byte payload limit mentioned) 
>> does not easily allow mixed secured/unsecured communications (but I 
>> do not think it is useful to have a side-discussion on that detail 
>> right now).}
>>
>> Some things cannot be compressed, like e.g. nonces, they can only be 
>> omitted by removing them at design time. Compression algorithms in 
>> themselves also add to the footprint. The approach of OSCORE and 
>> EDHOC has been to elide redundant information and define a compact 
>> format from the start. Do you think a lossless data compression 
>> performs better?
>>
>> The other question I have is whether it would be more important to 
>> hide the identity of the joining node in a network enrollment 
>> scenario than to hide the network manager's identity, or the other 
>> way around.
>>
>> There are different options to embed EDHOC in CoAP, the first request 
>> could be message_1 and the last response just an empty payload. Or 
>> the first request can be a trigger and message_1 carried in the first 
>> response.
>>
>> Hope that helps,
>>
>> Göran
>>
>> From [1], Section 1.1:
>>
>> EDHOC is optimized for small message sizes and can therefore be sent 
>> over a small number of radio frames. The message size of a key 
>> exchange protocol may have a large impact on the performance of an 
>> IoT deployment, especially in noisy environments. For example, in a 
>> network bootstrapping setting a large number of devices turned on in 
>> a short period of time may result in large latencies caused by 
>> parallel key exchanges.
>>
>> Ref: [1] draft-selander-ace-cose-ecdhe-12
>>
>>         [2] Email RS as of October 31, 2018, 2.32pm EDT, subject: 
>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ace/?q=struik
>>
>> On 11/22/2018 10:43 AM, Rene Struik wrote:
>>
>>     Hi John:
>>
>>     When comparing protocols, it would be useful to protocol flows
>>     optimization, as follows:
>>     a) optimized for parallelized online computations;
>>     b) optimized for minimization of message flows.
>>     See also slide 6 of my CFRG-83 presentation of March 30, 2012
>>     (slides-83-cfrg-05 attached; I could not find CFRG records online).
>>
>>     The current draft-selander-ace-cose-ecdhe-10 document considers
>>     optimization b), which minimizes the number of message flows, but
>>     does require each party to compute the shared key consecutively,
>>     rather than in parallel (as in optimization a).
>>
>>     With option a), if one really wishes to squeeze as much info into
>>     a 128-octet datagram, one can already send A's ephemeral ECDSA
>>     signature key in message flow 1, thereby cutting down the
>>     size of the second message flow of the Sigma protocol depicted in
>>     Fig. 1
>>     (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-selander-ace-cose-ecdhe-10#page-11)
>>     by 32 octets. This tackles the 120-octet byte count for the
>>     second flow of Fig. 1 quite simply, while leading to a 4-pass
>>     protocol flow (with roughly 70/70/55/55 bytes in flows 1/2/3/4).
>>
>>     Obviously, this presents a trade-off, but quite well be worth it
>>     in settings where online key computations are quite slow on some
>>     platforms and where scheduling (e.g., with TSCH) can now be done
>>     with less consideration of the individual computational
>>     capabilities of devices (since now one does not need to build-in
>>     a worst-case 2 x "key computation back-off" for least capable
>>     devices, but can just use the 1x contingency for this).
>>
>>     The parallel version is depicted below.
>>
>>     Party
>>
>>     U Party V | C_U, X_U, ALG_1, UAD_1, R_Sig(U;...) |
>>     +--------------------------------------------------------------------->|
>>     | message_1 | | | | C_U, C_V, X_V, ALG_2, R_Sig(V; ...) |
>>     |<---------------------------------------------------------------------+
>>     |
>>
>>     message_2 | | | | S_U, AEAD(K_3; ID_CRED_U, s_Sig(U; CRED_U,
>>     aad_3), PAD_3) |
>>     +--------------------------------------------------------------------->+
>>     | message_3 |
>>     |
>>
>>     | | S_V, AEAD(K_2;
>>
>>     ID_CRED_V, s_Sig(V; CRED_V, aad_2), UAD_2)| |
>>     +<---------------------------------------------------------------------|
>>     | message_4 |
>>
>>     ==============================================================================
>>
>>
>>     Flight                                #1         #2        #3    #4    Total
>>
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>     DTLS 1.3 RPK + ECDHE                 143        364       212     -     721
>>
>>     TLS 1.3  RPK + ECDHE                 129        322       194     -     645
>>
>>     EDHOC    RPK + ECDHE                  37        120        85     -     242
>>
>>     --> EDHOC parallel flow                 70         70        55     55    250
>>
>>     On 11/22/2018 7:23 AM, John Mattsson wrote:
>>
>>         Hi Jim,
>>
>>             In the analysis that I did I very deliberately used TLS not DTLS.  The main reason for using DTLS is because one is operating in the UDP environment and one cannot have reliable in order delivery.  Since EDHOC is being built on top of CoAP, one can use CoAP to create reliable in order delivery.  Thus, the extra bytes that DTLS has to deal with this are not needed.
>>
>>         I started with DTLS as that was what was discussion between Salvador and Benjamin. Below are numbers for TLS 1.3. Changes compared to DTLS 1.3 are that the record header is smaller, handshake headers are smaller, and that Connection ID is not supported in TLS 1.3. The numbers I get for TLS 1.3 are overall slightly bigger than the numbers in your estimate (but for PSK Flight #3 I get slightly smaller numbers). I think the difference is due to many smaller things like handshake headers and fields in the certificate structure that adds up. I plan to add TLS 1.3 numbers to draft-ietf-lwig-security-protocol-comparison as well.
>>
>>         I agree with your comment Jim. Just now, I am just trying to count the number of bytes of the security protocol. To do a fair comparison, you have to choose a specific deployment and look at the topology, the whole protocol stack, frame sizes (e.g. 128 bytes), how and where in the protocol stack fragmentation is done, and the expected packet loss. There is ongoing work on such simulations for 6tisch. Fragmentation and/or packet loss lead to the total number of bytes in the table below has to be multiplied by some linear factor. And as more bytes often lead to increased packet loss, you often see a non-linear relation between logical number of bytes on the transport/application layer as shown in the table below and physical number of bytes and/or time from completion of the protocol. Any realistic comparison over constrained radio would make the difference between TLS 1.3 and EDHOC larger. A problem with TLS is that it does not support Connection ID.
>>
>>         TLS Assumptions:
>>
>>         - Minimum number of algorithms and cipher suites offered
>>
>>         - Curve25519, ECDSA with P-256, AES-CCM_8, SHA-256
>>
>>         - Length of key identifiers: 4 bytes
>>
>>         - TLS RPK with point compression (saves 32 bytes)
>>
>>         - Only mandatory TLS extentions
>>
>>         ==============================================================================
>>
>>         Flight                                #1         #2        #3       Total
>>
>>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>         DTLS 1.3 RPK + ECDHE                 143        364       212        721
>>
>>         TLS 1.3  RPK + ECDHE                 129        322       194        645
>>
>>         EDHOC    RPK + ECDHE                  37        120        85        242
>>
>>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>         DTLS 1.3 PSK + ECDHE                 180        183        56        419
>>
>>         TLS 1.3  PSK + ECDHE                 166        157        50        373
>>
>>         EDHOC    PSK + ECDHE                  42         46        11         99
>>
>>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>         DTLS 1.3 PSK                         130        143        56        329
>>
>>         TLS 1.3  PSK                         116        117        50        283
>>
>>         ==============================================================================
>>
>>                                  Number of bytes (No connection ID)
>>
>>         Below is detailed information about the different flights:
>>
>>         ======================================================
>>
>>         TLS 1.3 Flight #1 RPK + ECDHE
>>
>>         ======================================================
>>
>>         Record Header - TLSPlaintext (5 bytes)
>>
>>         16 03 03 LL LL
>>
>>               Handshake Header - Client Hello (4 bytes)
>>
>>               01 LL LL LL
>>
>>                       Legacy Version (2 bytes)
>>
>>                       03 03
>>
>>                       Client Random (32 bytes)
>>
>>                       00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0a 0b 0c 0d 0e 0f 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 1a 1b 1c 1d 1e 1f
>>
>>                       Legacy Session ID (1 bytes)
>>
>>                       00
>>
>>                       Cipher Suites (TLS_AES_128_CCM_8_SHA256) (4 bytes)
>>
>>                       00 02 13 05
>>
>>                       Compression Methods (null) (2 bytes)
>>
>>                       01 00
>>
>>                       Extensions Length (2 bytes)
>>
>>                       LL LL
>>
>>                              Extension - Supported Groups (x25519) (8 bytes)
>>
>>                              00 0a 00 04 00 02 00 1d
>>
>>                              Extension - Signature Algorithms (ecdsa_secp256r1_sha256) (8 bytes)
>>
>>                              00 0d 00 04 00 02 08 07
>>
>>                              Extension - Key Share (42 bytes)
>>
>>                              00 33 00 26 00 24 00 1d 00 20
>>
>>                              00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0a 0b 0c 0d 0e 0f 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 1a 1b 1c 1d 1e 1f
>>
>>                              Extension - Supported Versions (1.3) (7 bytes)
>>
>>                              00 2b 00 03 02 03 04
>>
>>                              Extension - Client Certificate Type (Raw Public Key) (6 bytes)
>>
>>                              00 13 00 01 01 02
>>
>>                              Extension - Server Certificate Type (Raw Public Key) (6 bytes)
>>
>>                              00 14 00 01 01 02
>>
>>         5 + 4 + 2 + 32 + 1 + 4 + 2 + 2 + 8 + 8 + 42 + 7 + 6 + 6 = 129 bytes
>>
>>         ------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>         TLS 1.3 Flight #1 PSK + ECDHE
>>
>>         ------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>         Differences compared to RPK + ECDHE
>>
>>         + Extension - PSK Key Exchange Modes (6 bytes)
>>
>>            00 2d 00 02 01 01
>>
>>         + Extension - Pre Shared Key (51 bytes)
>>
>>            00 29 00 2F
>>
>>            00 0a 00 04 ID ID ID ID 00 00 00 00
>>
>>            00 21 20 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0a 0b 0c 0d 0e 0f 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 1a 1b 1c 1d 1e 1f
>>
>>         - Extension - Signature Algorithms (ecdsa_secp256r1_sha256) (8 bytes)
>>
>>         - Extension - Client Certificate Type (Raw Public Key) (6 bytes)
>>
>>         - Extension - Server Certificate Type (Raw Public Key) (6 bytes)
>>
>>         129 + 6 + 51 - 8 - 6 - 6 = 166 bytes
>>
>>         ------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>         TLS 1.3 Flight #1 PSK
>>
>>         ------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>         Differences compared to PSK + ECDHE
>>
>>         - Extension - Supported Groups (x25519) (8 bytes)
>>
>>         - Extension - Key Share (42 bytes)
>>
>>         166 - 8 - 42 = 116 bytes
>>
>>         ======================================================
>>
>>         TLS 1.3 Flight #2  RPK + ECDHE
>>
>>         ======================================================
>>
>>         Record Header - TLSPlaintext (5 bytes)
>>
>>         16 03 03 LL LL
>>
>>               Handshake Header - Server Hello (4 bytes)
>>
>>               02 LL LL LL
>>
>>                       Legacy Version (2 bytes)
>>
>>                       fe fd
>>
>>                       Server Random (32 bytes)
>>
>>                       00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0a 0b 0c 0d 0e 0f 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 1a 1b 1c 1d 1e 1f
>>
>>                       Legacy Session ID (1 bytes)
>>
>>                       00
>>
>>                       Cipher Suite (TLS_AES_128_CCM_8_SHA256) (2 bytes)
>>
>>                       13 05
>>
>>                       Compression Method (null) (1 bytes)
>>
>>                       00
>>
>>                       Extensions Length (2 bytes)
>>
>>                       LL LL
>>
>>                              Extension - Key Share (40 bytes)
>>
>>                              00 33 00 24 00 1d 00 20
>>
>>                              00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0a 0b 0c 0d 0e 0f 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 1a 1b 1c 1d 1e 1f
>>
>>                              Extension - Supported Versions (1.3) (6 bytes)
>>
>>                              00 2b 00 02 03 04
>>
>>         Record Header - TLSCiphertext (5 bytes)
>>
>>         17 03 03 LL LL
>>
>>               Handshake Header - Encrypted Extensions (4 bytes)
>>
>>               08 LL LL LL
>>
>>                       Extensions Length (2 bytes)
>>
>>                       LL LL
>>
>>                              Extension - Client Certificate Type (Raw Public Key) (6 bytes)
>>
>>                              00 13 00 01 01 02
>>
>>                              Extension - Server Certificate Type (Raw Public Key) (6 bytes)
>>
>>                              00 14 00 01 01 02
>>
>>               Handshake Header - Certificate Request (4 bytes)
>>
>>               0d LL LL LL
>>
>>                       Request Context (1 bytes)
>>
>>                       00
>>
>>                       Extensions Length (2 bytes)
>>
>>                       LL LL
>>
>>                              Extension - Signature Algorithms (ecdsa_secp256r1_sha256) (8 bytes)
>>
>>                              00 0d 00 04 00 02 08 07
>>
>>               Handshake Header - Certificate (4 bytes)
>>
>>               0b LL LL LL
>>
>>                       Request Context (1 bytes)
>>
>>                       00
>>
>>                       Certificate List Length (3 bytes)
>>
>>                       LL LL LL
>>
>>                       Certificate Length (3 bytes)
>>
>>                       LL LL LL
>>
>>                       Certificate (59 bytes) // Point compression
>>
>>                       ....
>>
>>                       Certificate Extensions (2 bytes)
>>
>>                       00 00
>>
>>               Handshake Header - Certificate Verify (4 bytes)
>>
>>               0f LL LL LL
>>
>>                       Signature  (68 bytes)
>>
>>                       ZZ ZZ 00 40 ....
>>
>>               Handshake Header - Finished (4 bytes)
>>
>>               14 LL LL LL
>>
>>                       Verify Data (32 bytes)
>>
>>                       00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0a 0b 0c 0d 0e 0f 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 1a 1b 1c 1d 1e 1f
>>
>>               Record Type (1 byte)
>>
>>               16
>>
>>         Auth Tag (8 bytes)
>>
>>         e0 8b 0e 45 5a 35 0a e5
>>
>>         5 + 90 + 5 + 18 + 15 + 72 + 72 + 36 + 1 + 8 = 322 bytes
>>
>>         ------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>         TLS 1.3 Flight #2 PSK + ECDHE
>>
>>         ------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>         Differences compared to RPK + ECDHE
>>
>>         - Handshake Message Certificate (72 bytes)
>>
>>         - Handshake Message CertificateVerify (72 bytes)
>>
>>         - Handshake Message CertificateRequest (15 bytes)
>>
>>         - Extension - Client Certificate Type (Raw Public Key) (6 bytes)
>>
>>         - Extension - Server Certificate Type (Raw Public Key) (6 bytes)
>>
>>         + Extension - Pre Shared Key (6 bytes)
>>
>>            00 29 00 02 00 00
>>
>>         322 - 72 - 72 - 15 - 6 - 6  + 6 = 157 bytes
>>
>>         ------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>         TLS 1.3 Flight #2 PSK
>>
>>         ------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>         Differences compared to PSK + ECDHE
>>
>>         - Extension - Key Share (40 bytes)
>>
>>         157 - 40 = 117 bytes
>>
>>         ======================================================
>>
>>         TLS 1.3 Flight #3 RPK + ECDHE
>>
>>         ======================================================
>>
>>         Record Header - TLSCiphertext (5 bytes)
>>
>>         17 03 03 LL LL
>>
>>               Handshake Header - Certificate (4 bytes)
>>
>>               0b LL LL LL
>>
>>                       Request Context (1 bytes)
>>
>>                       00
>>
>>                       Certificate List Length (3 bytes)
>>
>>                       LL LL LL
>>
>>                       Certificate Length (3 bytes)
>>
>>                       LL LL LL
>>
>>               
>>
>>                       Certificate (59 bytes) // Point compression
>>
>>                       ....
>>
>>                       Certificate Extensions (2 bytes)
>>
>>                       00 00
>>
>>               Handshake Header - Certificate Verify (4 bytes)
>>
>>               0f LL LL LL
>>
>>                       Signature  (68 bytes)
>>
>>                       04 03 LL LL //ecdsa_secp256r1_sha256
>>
>>                       00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0a 0b 0c 0d 0e 0f 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 1a 1b 1c 1d 1e 1f
>>
>>                       00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0a 0b 0c 0d 0e 0f 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 1a 1b 1c 1d 1e 1f
>>
>>               Handshake Header - Finished (4 bytes)
>>
>>               14 LL LL LL
>>
>>                       Verify Data (32 bytes) // SHA-256
>>
>>                       00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0a 0b 0c 0d 0e 0f 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 1a 1b 1c 1d 1e 1f
>>
>>               Record Type (1 byte)
>>
>>               16
>>
>>         Auth Tag (8 bytes) // AES-CCM_8
>>
>>         00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07
>>
>>         5 + 72 + 72 + 36 + 1 + 8 = 194 bytes
>>
>>         ------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>         TLS 1.3 Flight #3 PSK + ECDHE
>>
>>         -----------------------------------------------------
>>
>>         Differences compared to RPK + ECDHE
>>
>>         - Handshake Message Certificate (72 bytes)
>>
>>         - Handshake Message Certificate Verify (72 bytes)
>>
>>         194 - 72 - 72 = 50 bytes
>>
>>         ------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>         TLS 1.3 Flight #3 PSK
>>
>>         -----------------------------------------------------
>>
>>         Differences compared to PSK + ECDHE
>>
>>         None
>>
>>         50 bytes
>>
>>         -----Original Message-----
>>
>>         From: Jim Schaad<[e-mail]>  <mailto:[e-mail]>
>>
>>         Date: Wednesday, 21 November 2018 at 16:25
>>
>>         To: John Mattsson<[e-mail]>  <mailto:[e-mail]>,"[e-mail]"  <mailto:[e-mail]>  <[e-mail]>  <mailto:[e-mail]>,"[e-mail]"  <mailto:[e-mail]>  <[e-mail]>  <mailto:[e-mail]>
>>
>>         Cc: 'Benjamin Kaduk'<[e-mail]>  <mailto:[e-mail]>,"[e-mail]"  <mailto:[e-mail]>  <[e-mail]>  <mailto:[e-mail]>
>>
>>         Subject: RE: [Ace] EDHOC standardization
>>
>>         John,
>>
>>         In the analysis that I did I very deliberately used TLS not DTLS.  The main reason for using DTLS is because one is operating in the UDP environment and one cannot have reliable in order delivery.  Since EDHOC is being built on top of CoAP, one can use CoAP to create reliable in order delivery.  Thus the extra bytes that DTLS has to deal with this are not needed.
>>
>>         Jim
>>
>>             -----Original Message-----
>>
>>             From: Ace<[e-mail]>  <mailto:[e-mail]>  On Behalf Of John Mattsson
>>
>>             Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2018 7:03 AM
>>
>>             To:[e-mail]  <mailto:[e-mail]>;[e-mail]  <mailto:[e-mail]>
>>
>>             Cc: Benjamin Kaduk<[e-mail]>  <mailto:[e-mail]>;[e-mail]  <mailto:[e-mail]>
>>
>>             Subject: Re: [Ace] EDHOC standardization
>>
>>             Hi all,
>>
>>             Inspired by the discussion in this thread, I did more detailed calculations of the
>>
>>             number of bytes when DTLS 1.3 is used for typical IoT use cases (PSK, RPK,
>>
>>             Connection ID). The plan is to add this information to draft-ietf-lwig-security-
>>
>>             protocol-comparison as this has been requested by several people. I think some
>>
>>             bytes were missing in the earlier estimates for TLS 1.3, and as Ben commented,
>>
>>             DTLS 1.3 adds some bytes compared to TLS 1.3.
>>
>>             ================================================================
>>
>>             ==============
>>
>>             Flight                                #1         #2        #3       Total
>>
>>             ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>             DTLS 1.3 RPK + ECDHE                 149        373       213        735
>>
>>             DTLS 1.3 PSK + ECDHE                 186        190        57        433
>>
>>             DTLS 1.3 PSK                         136        150        57        343
>>
>>             ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>             EDHOC    RPK + ECDHE                  38        121        86        245
>>
>>             EDHOC    PSK + ECDHE                  43         47        12        102
>>
>>             ================================================================
>>
>>             ==============
>>
>>                                               Number of bytes
>>
>>             Assumptions:
>>
>>             - Minimum number of algorithms and cipher suites offered
>>
>>             - Curve25519, ECDSA with P-256, AES-CCM_8, SHA-256
>>
>>             - Length of key identifiers: 4 bytes
>>
>>             - Connection identifiers: 1 byte
>>
>>             - The DTLS RPKs use point compression (saves 32 bytes)
>>
>>             - No DTLS handshake message fragmentation
>>
>>             - Only mandatory DTLS extentions, except for connection ID
>>
>>             - Version 30https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tls-dtls13-30
>>
>>             (EDHOC numbers are for the soon to be published -11 version with cipher
>>
>>             suites)
>>
>>             I hope this information is useful for people. Please comment if I missed
>>
>>             something or if you have any suggestion of things to add or how to present
>>
>>             things. I do not know currently how these numbers compare to DTLS 1.2.
>>
>>             Below is detailed information about where the byte in different flights as well
>>
>>             as the RPKs (SubjectPublicKeyInfo). Most of the bytes should have the correct
>>
>>             value, but most of the length fields are just written as LL LL LL. Below is also
>>
>>             information about how resumption, cached information [RFC 7924], and not
>>
>>             using Connection ID affects the number of bytes.
>>
>>             ======================================================
>>
>>             DTLS 1.3 Flight #1 RPK + ECDHE
>>
>>             ======================================================
>>
>>             Record Header - DTLSPlaintext (13 bytes)
>>
>>             16 fe fd EE EE SS SS SS SS SS SS LL LL
>>
>>                     Handshake Header - Client Hello (10 bytes)
>>
>>                     01 LL LL LL SS SS 00 00 00 LL LL LL
>>
>>                            Legacy Version (2 bytes)
>>
>>                            fe fd
>>
>>                            Client Random (32 bytes)
>>
>>                            00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0a 0b 0c 0d 0e 0f 10 11 12 13 14
>>
>>             15 16 17 18 19 1a 1b 1c 1d 1e 1f
>>
>>                            Legacy Session ID (1 bytes)
>>
>>                      ��     00
>>
>>                            Cipher Suites (TLS_AES_128_CCM_8_SHA256) (4 bytes)
>>
>>                            00 02 13 05
>>
>>                            Compression Methods (null) (2 bytes)
>>
>>                            01 00
>>
>>                            Extensions Length (2 bytes)
>>
>>                            LL LL
>>
>>                                    Extension - Supported Groups (x25519) (8 bytes)
>>
>>                                    00 0a 00 04 00 02 00 1d
>>
>>                                    Extension - Signature Algorithms
>>
>>             (ecdsa_secp256r1_sha256) (8 bytes)
>>
>>                                    00 0d 00 04 00 02 08 07
>>
>>                                    Extension - Key Share (42 bytes)
>>
>>                                    00 33 00 26 00 24 00 1d 00 20
>>
>>                                    00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0a 0b 0c 0d 0e 0f 10 11
>>
>>             12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 1a 1b 1c 1d 1e 1f
>>
>>                                    Extension - Supported Versions (1.3) (7 bytes)
>>
>>                                    00 2b 00 03 02 03 04
>>
>>                                    Extension - Client Certificate Type (Raw Public Key) (6
>>
>>             bytes)
>>
>>                                    00 13 00 01 01 02
>>
>>                                    Extension - Server Certificate Type (Raw Public Key) (6
>>
>>             bytes)
>>
>>                                    00 14 00 01 01 02
>>
>>                                    Extension - Connection Identifier (43) (6 bytes)
>>
>>                                    XX XX 00 02 01 42
>>
>>             13 + 10 + 2 + 32 + 1 + 4 + 2 + 2 + 8 + 8 + 42 + 7 + 6 + 6 + 6 = 149 bytes
>>
>>             ------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>             DTLS 1.3 Flight #1 PSK + ECDHE
>>
>>             ------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>             Differences compared to RPK + ECDHE
>>
>>             + Extension - PSK Key Exchange Modes (6 bytes)
>>
>>                00 2d 00 02 01 01
>>
>>             + Extension - Pre Shared Key (51 bytes)
>>
>>                00 29 00 2F
>>
>>                00 0a 00 04 ID ID ID ID 00 00 00 00
>>
>>                00 21 20 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0a 0b 0c 0d 0e 0f 10 11 12 13 14 15
>>
>>             16 17 18 19 1a 1b 1c 1d 1e 1f
>>
>>             - Extension - Signature Algorithms (ecdsa_secp256r1_sha256) (8 bytes)
>>
>>             - Extension - Client Certificate Type (Raw Public Key) (6 bytes)
>>
>>             - Extension - Server Certificate Type (Raw Public Key) (6 bytes)
>>
>>             149 + 6 + 51 - 8 - 6 - 6 = 186 bytes
>>
>>             ------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>             DTLS 1.3 Flight #1 PSK
>>
>>             ------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>             Differences compared to PSK + ECDHE
>>
>>             - Extension - Supported Groups (x25519) (8 bytes)
>>
>>             - Extension - Key Share (42 bytes)
>>
>>             186 - 8 - 42 = 136 bytes
>>
>>             ======================================================
>>
>>             DTLS 1.3 Flight #2  RPK + ECDHE
>>
>>             ======================================================
>>
>>             Record Header - DTLSPlaintext (13 bytes)
>>
>>             16 fe fd EE EE SS SS SS SS SS SS LL LL
>>
>>                     Handshake Header - Server Hello (10 bytes)
>>
>>                     02 LL LL LL SS SS 00 00 00 LL LL LL
>>
>>                            Legacy Version (2 bytes)
>>
>>                            fe fd
>>
>>                            Server Random (32 bytes)
>>
>>                            00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0a 0b 0c 0d 0e 0f 10 11 12 13 14
>>
>>             15 16 17 18 19 1a 1b 1c 1d 1e 1f
>>
>>                            Legacy Session ID (1 bytes)
>>
>>                            00
>>
>>                            Cipher Suite (TLS_AES_128_CCM_8_SHA256) (2 bytes)
>>
>>                            13 05
>>
>>                            Compression Method (null) (1 bytes)
>>
>>                            00
>>
>>                            Extensions Length (2 bytes)
>>
>>                            LL LL
>>
>>                                    Extension - Key Share (40 bytes)
>>
>>                                    00 33 00 24 00 1d 00 20
>>
>>                                    00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0a 0b 0c 0d 0e 0f 10 11
>>
>>             12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 1a 1b 1c 1d 1e 1f
>>
>>                                    Extension - Supported Versions (1.3) (6 bytes)
>>
>>                                    00 2b 00 02 03 04
>>
>>                                    Extension - Connection Identifier (43) (6 bytes)
>>
>>                                    XX XX 00 02 01 43
>>
>>             Record Header - DTLSCiphertext, Full (6 bytes) HH ES SS 43 LL LL
>>
>>                     Handshake Header - Encrypted Extensions (10 bytes)
>>
>>                     08 LL LL LL SS SS 00 00 00 LL LL LL
>>
>>                            Extensions Length (2 bytes)
>>
>>                            LL LL
>>
>>                                    Extension - Client Certificate Type (Raw Public Key) (6
>>
>>             bytes)
>>
>>                                    00 13 00 01 01 02
>>
>>                                    Extension - Server Certificate Type (Raw Public Key) (6
>>
>>             bytes)
>>
>>                                    00 14 00 01 01 02
>>
>>                     Handshake Header - Certificate Request (10 bytes)
>>
>>                     0d LL LL LL SS SS 00 00 00 LL LL LL
>>
>>                            Request Context (1 bytes)
>>
>>                            00
>>
>>                            Extensions Length (2 bytes)
>>
>>                            LL LL
>>
>>                                    Extension - Signature Algorithms
>>
>>             (ecdsa_secp256r1_sha256) (8 bytes)
>>
>>                                    00 0d 00 04 00 02 08 07
>>
>>                     Handshake Header - Certificate (10 bytes)
>>
>>                     0b LL LL LL SS SS 00 00 00 LL LL LL
>>
>>                            Request Context (1 bytes)
>>
>>                            00
>>
>>                            Certificate List Length (3 bytes)
>>
>>                            LL LL LL
>>
>>                            Certificate Length (3 bytes)
>>
>>                            LL LL LL
>>
>>                            Certificate (59 bytes) // Point compression
>>
>>                            ....
>>
>>                            Certificate Extensions (2 bytes)
>>
>>                            00 00
>>
>>                     Handshake Header - Certificate Verify (10 bytes)
>>
>>                     0f LL LL LL SS SS 00 00 00 LL LL LL
>>
>>                            Signature  (68 bytes)
>>
>>                            ZZ ZZ 00 40 ....
>>
>>                     Handshake Header - Finished (10 bytes)
>>
>>                     14 LL LL LL SS SS 00 00 00 LL LL LL
>>
>>                            Verify Data (32 bytes)
>>
>>                            00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0a 0b 0c 0d 0e 0f 10 11 12 13 14
>>
>>             15 16 17 18 19 1a 1b 1c 1d 1e 1f
>>
>>                     Record Type (1 byte)
>>
>>                     16
>>
>>             Auth Tag (8 bytes)
>>
>>             e0 8b 0e 45 5a 35 0a e5
>>
>>             13 + 102 + 6 + 24 + 21 + 78 + 78 + 42 + 1 + 8 = 373 bytes
>>
>>             ------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>             DTLS 1.3 Flight #2 PSK + ECDHE
>>
>>             ------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>             Differences compared to RPK + ECDHE
>>
>>             - Handshake Message Certificate (78 bytes)
>>
>>             - Handshake Message CertificateVerify (78 bytes)
>>
>>             - Handshake Message CertificateRequest (21 bytes)
>>
>>             - Extension - Client Certificate Type (Raw Public Key) (6 bytes)
>>
>>             - Extension - Server Certificate Type (Raw Public Key) (6 bytes)
>>
>>             + Extension - Pre Shared Key (6 bytes)
>>
>>                00 29 00 02 00 00
>>
>>             373 - 78 - 78 - 21 - 6 - 6  + 6 = 190 bytes
>>
>>             ------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>             DTLS 1.3 Flight #2 PSK
>>
>>             ------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>             Differences compared to PSK + ECDHE
>>
>>             - Extension - Key Share (40 bytes)
>>
>>             190 - 40 = 150 bytes
>>
>>             ======================================================
>>
>>             DTLS 1.3 Flight #3 RPK + ECDHE
>>
>>             ======================================================
>>
>>             Record Header (6 bytes) // DTLSCiphertext, Full ZZ ES SS 42 LL LL
>>
>>                     Handshake Header - Certificate (10 bytes)
>>
>>                     0b LL LL LL SS SS XX XX XX LL LL LL
>>
>>                            Request Context (1 bytes)
>>
>>                            00
>>
>>                            Certificate List Length (3 bytes)
>>
>>                            LL LL LL
>>
>>                            Certificate Length (3 bytes)
>>
>>                            LL LL LL
>>
>>                            Certificate (59 bytes) // Point compression
>>
>>                            ....
>>
>>                            Certificate Extensions (2 bytes)
>>
>>                            00 00
>>
>>                     Handshake Header - Certificate Verify (10 bytes)
>>
>>                     0f LL LL LL SS SS 00 00 00 LL LL LL
>>
>>                            Signature  (68 bytes)
>>
>>                            04 03 LL LL //ecdsa_secp256r1_sha256
>>
>>                            00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0a 0b 0c 0d 0e 0f 10 11 12 13 14
>>
>>             15 16 17 18 19 1a 1b 1c 1d 1e 1f
>>
>>                            00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0a 0b 0c 0d 0e 0f 10 11 12 13 14
>>
>>             15 16 17 18 19 1a 1b 1c 1d 1e 1f
>>
>>                     Handshake Header - Finished (10 bytes)
>>
>>                     14 LL LL LL SS SS 00 00 00 LL LL LL
>>
>>                            Verify Data (32 bytes) // SHA-256
>>
>>                            00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0a 0b 0c 0d 0e 0f 10 11 12 13 14
>>
>>             15 16 17 18 19 1a 1b 1c 1d 1e 1f
>>
>>                     Record Type (1 byte)
>>
>>                     16
>>
>>             Auth Tag (8 bytes) // AES-CCM_8
>>
>>             00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07
>>
>>             6 + 78 + 78 + 42 + 1 + 8 = 213 bytes
>>
>>             ------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>             DTLS 1.3 Flight #3 PSK + ECDHE
>>
>>             -----------------------------------------------------
>>
>>             Differences compared to RPK + ECDHE
>>
>>             - Handshake Message Certificate (78 bytes)
>>
>>             - Handshake Message Certificate Verify (78 bytes)
>>
>>             213 - 78 - 78 = 57 bytes
>>
>>             ------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>             DTLS 1.3 Flight #3 PSK
>>
>>             -----------------------------------------------------
>>
>>             Differences compared to PSK + ECDHE
>>
>>             None
>>
>>             57 bytes
>>
>>             ======================================================
>>
>>             DTLS 1.3 - Cached information [RFC 7924]
>>
>>             ======================================================
>>
>>             - Cached information together with server X.509 can be used to move bytes
>>
>>             from flight #2 to flight #1
>>
>>                (cached RPK increases the number of bytes compared to cached X.509)
>>
>>             Differences compared to RPK + ECDHE
>>
>>             Flight #1
>>
>>             - Extension - Server Certificate Type (Raw Public Key) (6 bytes)
>>
>>             + Extension - Client Cashed Information (39 bytes)
>>
>>                00 19 LL LL LL LL
>>
>>                01 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0a 0b 0c 0d 0e 0f 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
>>
>>             18 19 1a 1b 1c 1d 1e 1f
>>
>>             149 + 33 = 182 bytes
>>
>>             Flight #2
>>
>>             - Extension - Server Certificate Type (Raw Public Key) (6 bytes)
>>
>>             + Extension - Server Cashed Information (7 bytes)
>>
>>                00 19 LL LL LL LL 01
>>
>>             - Server Certificate (59 bytes -> 32 bytes)
>>
>>             373 - 26 = 347 bytes
>>
>>             ================================================================
>>
>>             ==============
>>
>>             Flight                                #1         #2        #3       Total
>>
>>             ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>             DTLS 1.3 Cached X.509/RPK + ECDHE    182        347       213        742
>>
>>             DTLS 1.3 RPK + ECDHE                 149        373       213        735
>>
>>             ================================================================
>>
>>             ==============
>>
>>             ======================================================
>>
>>             DTLS 1.3 - Resumption
>>
>>             ======================================================
>>
>>             To enable resumption, a 4th flight (New Session Ticket) is added
>>
>>             Flight #4 - New Session Ticket
>>
>>             Record Header - DTLSCiphertext, Full (6 bytes) HH ES SS 43 LL LL
>>
>>                     Handshake Header - New Session Ticket (10 bytes)
>>
>>                     04 LL LL LL SS SS 00 00 00 LL LL LL
>>
>>                            Ticket Lifetime (4 bytes)
>>
>>                            00 01 02 03
>>
>>                            Ticket Age Add (4 bytes)
>>
>>                            00 01 02 03
>>
>>                            Ticket Nonce (2 bytes)
>>
>>                            01 00
>>
>>                            Ticket (6 bytes)
>>
>>                            00 04 ID ID ID ID
>>
>>                            Extensions (2 bytes)
>>
>>                            00 00
>>
>>             Auth Tag (8 bytes) // AES-CCM_8
>>
>>             00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07
>>
>>             6 + 10 + 4 + 4 + 2 + 6 + 2 + 8 = 42 bytes
>>
>>             The resumption handshake is just a PSK handshake with 136 + 150 + 57 = 343
>>
>>             bytes
>>
>>             ================================================================
>>
>>             ==============
>>
>>             Flight                                      #1     #2     #3     #4    Total
>>
>>             ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>             DTLS 1.3 RPK + ECDHE + NewSessionTicket    149    373    213     42      777
>>
>>             DTLS 1.3 PSK (resumption)                  136    150     57             343
>>
>>             ================================================================
>>
>>             ==============
>>
>>             ======================================================
>>
>>             DTLS 1.3 - Connection ID
>>
>>             ======================================================
>>
>>             Without a Connection ID the DTLS 1.3 flight sizes changes as follows
>>
>>             DTLS 1.3 Flight #1:   -6 bytes
>>
>>             DTLS 1.3 Flight #2:   -7 bytes
>>
>>             DTLS 1.3 Flight #3:   -1 byte
>>
>>             ================================================================
>>
>>             ==============
>>
>>             Flight                                #1         #2        #3       Total
>>
>>             ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>             DTLS 1.3 RPK + ECDHE (no cid)        143        364       212        721
>>
>>             DTLS 1.3 PSK + ECDHE (no cid)        180        183        56        419
>>
>>             DTLS 1.3 PSK (no cid)                130        143        56        329
>>
>>             ================================================================
>>
>>             ==============
>>
>>             ======================================================
>>
>>             DTLS Raw Public Keys
>>
>>             ======================================================
>>
>>             SubjectPublicKeyInfo without point compression
>>
>>             -----------------------------------------------------
>>
>>             0x30 // Sequence
>>
>>             0x59 // Size 89
>>
>>             0x30 // Sequence
>>
>>             0x13 // Size 19
>>
>>             0x06 0x07 0x2A 0x86 0x48 0xCE 0x3D 0x02 0x01.     // OID 1.2.840.10045.2.1
>>
>>             (ecPublicKey)
>>
>>             0x06 0x08 0x2A 0x86 0x48 0xCE 0x3D 0x03 0x01 0x07 // OID
>>
>>             1.2.840.10045.3.1.7 (secp256r1)
>>
>>             0x03 // Bit string
>>
>>             0x42 // Size 66
>>
>>             0x00 // Unused bits 0
>>
>>             0x04 // Uncompressed
>>
>>             ...... 64 bytes X and Y
>>
>>             Total of 91 bytes
>>
>>             SubjectPublicKeyInfo with point compression
>>
>>             -----------------------------------------------------
>>
>>             0x30 // Sequence
>>
>>             0x59 // Size 89
>>
>>             0x30 // Sequence
>>
>>             0x13 // Size 19
>>
>>             0x06 0x07 0x2A 0x86 0x48 0xCE 0x3D 0x02 0x01.     // OID 1.2.840.10045.2.1
>>
>>             (ecPublicKey)
>>
>>             0x06 0x08 0x2A 0x86 0x48 0xCE 0x3D 0x03 0x01 0x07 // OID
>>
>>             1.2.840.10045.3.1.7 (secp256r1)
>>
>>             0x03 // Bit string
>>
>>             0x42 // Size 66
>>
>>             0x00 // Unused bits 0
>>
>>             0x03 // Compressed
>>
>>             ...... 32 bytes X
>>
>>             Total of 59 bytes
>>
>>             ======================================================
>>
>>             Helpful Sources of Information
>>
>>             ======================================================
>>
>>             In addition to relevant RFCs and the estimates done by Jim, the following
>>
>>             references were helpful:
>>
>>             Every Byte Explained: The Illustrated TLS 1.3 Connection
>>
>>             https://tls13.ulfheim.net/
>>
>>             Digital Certificates for the Internet of Thingshttps://kth.diva-
>>
>>             portal.org/smash/get/diva2:1153958/FULLTEXT01.pdf
>>
>>             /John
>>
>>             -----Original Message-----
>>
>>             From: Benjamin Kaduk<[e-mail]>  <mailto:[e-mail]>
>>
>>             Date: Saturday, 3 November 2018 at 15:59
>>
>>             To: John Mattsson<[e-mail]>  <mailto:[e-mail]>
>>
>>             Cc:"[e-mail]"  <mailto:[e-mail]>  <[e-mail]>  <mailto:[e-mail]>,"[e-mail]"  <mailto:[e-mail]>
>>
>>             <[e-mail]>  <mailto:[e-mail]>
>>
>>             Subject: Re: [Ace] EDHOC standardization
>>
>>             On Fri, Nov 02, 2018 at 02:55:54PM +0000, John Mattsson wrote:
>>
>>                 Hi Benjamin, Salvador
>>
>>                 While DTLS 1.3 have done a very good job of lowering the overhead of the
>>
>>             record layer when application data is sent (see e.g.
>>
>>             https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lwig-security-protocol-comparison-01  for a
>>
>>             comparison between different protocols), I do not think the handshake protocol
>>
>>             is much leaner (is it leaner at all?).
>>
>>             (There are some handshake messages that are removed entirely.)
>>
>>                 We tried to make an fair comparison between EDHOC and TLS 1.3 in the
>>
>>             presentation at IETF 101 (see
>>
>>             https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/101/materials/slides-101-ace-key-
>>
>>             exchange-w-oscore-00). Since then, we have significantly optimized the
>>
>>             encoding in EDHOC and the upcoming version (-11) is expected to have the
>>
>>             following message sizes.
>>
>>                     Auth.               PSK       RPK       x5t     x5chain
>>
>>                     --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>                     EDHOC message_1      43        38        38        38
>>
>>                     EDHOC message_2      47       121       127       117 + Certificate chain
>>
>>                     EDHOC message_3      12        86        92        82 + Certificate chain
>>
>>                     --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>                     Total               102       245       257       237 + Certificate chains
>>
>>                 As Salvador writes, the handshakes in TLS 1.3 and DTLS 1.3 are basically the
>>
>>             same, so the numbers presented at IETF 101 should be a good estimate also for
>>
>>             DTLS 1.3.
>>
>>                     Auth.                PSK       RPK
>>
>>                     --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>                     (D)TLS message_1     142       107
>>
>>                     (D)TLS message_2     135       264
>>
>>                     (D)TLS message_3      51       167
>>
>>                     --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>                     Total                328       538
>>
>>             Thanks for the numbers!
>>
>>                 The numbers above include ECDHE. For handshake messages, my
>>
>>             understanding is that the DTLS 1.3 and TLS 1.3 record layer have exactly the
>>
>>             same size.
>>
>>             The DTLS 1.3 ones will be worse, due to the epoch and sequence number fields.
>>
>>             -Ben
>>
>>             _______________________________________________
>>
>>             Ace mailing list
>>
>>             [e-mail]  <mailto:[e-mail]>
>>
>>             https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ace
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
>>
>>         Lwip mailing list
>>
>>         [e-mail]  <mailto:[e-mail]>
>>
>>         https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lwip
>>
>>     -- 
>>
>>     email:[e-mail]  <mailto:[e-mail]>  | Skype: rstruik
>>
>>     cell: [phone] | US: [phone]
>>
>> -- 
>> email:[e-mail]  <mailto:[e-mail]>  | Skype: rstruik
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>>
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