Re: [Add] New Version Notification for draft-btw-add-home-04.txt

[Iain Sharp <[e-mail]>]

Hi

Thanks for the clarification text. 

> (2) is definitely out of scope.

That being the case, then maybe a revision of the title to this would be useful: "DNS-over-HTTPS and DNS-over-TLS Server Discovery and Deployment Considerations for Home Networks and Mobile Tethering"

I think that would really help make clear that the topic is 1) and not 2).

On terminology, 3GPP uses "UE" for the device that attaches to the mobile network which is one thing that confused me when reading the document. 

Regards

Iain

-----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail] <[e-mail]> 
Sent: 18 March 2020 09:30
To: Iain Sharp <[e-mail]>; ADD Mailing list ([e-mail]) <[e-mail]>
Subject: [EXT] RE: New Version Notification for draft-btw-add-home-04.txt

Hi Iain,

(2) is definitely out of scope. 

I added this NEW text to my local copy:

   Hosts and/or CPEs may be connected to multiple networks; each
   providing their own DNS configuration using the discovery mechanisms
   specified in this document.  Nevertheless, it is out of the scope of
   this specification to discuss DNS selection of multi-interface
   devices.  The reader may refer to [RFC6731] for a discussion of
   issues and an example of DNS server selection for multi-interfaced
   devices.

Thank you. 

Cheers,
Med

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Iain Sharp [mailto:[e-mail]] Envoyé : mardi 17 mars 2020 
> 16:46 À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; ADD Mailing list ([e-mail]) 
> Objet : RE: New Version Notification for draft-btw-add-home-04.txt
> 
> Thanks Mohamed,
> 
> Good points. I see two cases in mobile:
> 1) Where the mobile device is acting as a gateway between a cellular 
> network and a local Wi-Fi network. This is what is often called 
> "tethering" or a "personal hotspot"
> 2) The behaviour of the operating system and the applications on the 
> mobile UE itself.
> 
> From what you have said, it sounds like your intention is to cover 
> case 1). I agree this has similarities to the residential case so I 
> can see the sense in covering them together.
> 
> However, case 2) is the typical case for a mobile which isn't being 
> used as a personal hotspot. This case has its own issues: for example, 
> mobile UEs frequently move between Wi-Fi and cellular coverage and may 
> be simultaneously connected to both. Each access type may have a 
> different local DNS service.
> 
> If you can add clarity to the scope the text and title that seems 
> sensible. If you want to cover case 2) fully then that might need an 
> expanded discussion in the text.
> 
> 
> Regards
> 
> Iain
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
> Sent: 17 March 2020 14:02
> To: Iain Sharp <[e-mail]>; ADD Mailing list ([e-mail]) 
> <[e-mail]>
> Subject: [EXT] RE: New Version Notification for draft-btw-add-home- 
> 04.txt
> 
> Hi Iain,
> 
> Thank you for sharing the comments.
> 
> Please see inline.
> 
> Cheers,
> Med
> 
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De : Iain Sharp [mailto:[e-mail]] Envoyé : mardi 17 mars 2020
> > 13:38 À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; ADD Mailing list ([e-mail]) 
> > Objet : RE: New Version Notification for draft-btw-add-home-04.txt
> >
> > Thanks all for creating this draft.
> >
> > A few general comments:
> >
> > - I am not sure what the terms "LAN" and "CPE" mean in the context
> of
> > a mobile network.
> 
> [Med] CPE (or home routers) can get connectivity via a Fixed network, 
> cellular network, or both (called, hybrid CPEs). "LAN" refers to the 
> home network if you will. We are using these two notions independently 
> of how the WAN connectivity is provided.
> 
> 
>  I think that probably the "LAN" is meant to be the
> > mobile network itself and the "CPE" is the mobile network's Internet 
> > gateway (GGSN, P-Gateway etc.).
> 
> [Med] Actually, PGW can be seen as an access router in an ISP network.
> 
>  Actually it is quite hard to model
> > mobile networks with all the layers of tunnelling etc., particularly 
> > if you include "tethering" of external devices to mobile UEs. Some 
> > more clarity on this area and showing the mapping to normal mobile 
> > network terminology would be helpful.
> 
> [Med] Point taken. We will see how to make things more clear. We may 
> point the reader to:
> * https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6459 (generic architecture)
> * https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7849#section-3 (CPE, devices with 
> tethering features).
> 
> 
> >
> > - Section 3.2: There may be other scenarios that are relevant - e.g.
> > the "Internal CPE" talking to a "3rd Party DNS Provider".
> 
> [Med] Agree. We discuss that particular one in Section 8.2 (see Figure 
> 14). We may add cite it in 3.2.
> 
> >
> > Editorial comments:
> >
> > - Section 3.1: "If a DNS client supports both DoT and DoH, the
> client
> > try to establish DoH/DoT sessions..." should be "If a DNS client 
> > supports both DoT and DoH, the client *MAY* try to establish DoH/DoT 
> > sessions..." perhaps.
> >
> 
> [Med] Fixed. Thank you.
> 
> > Regards
> >
> > Iain
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Add <[e-mail]> On Behalf Of 
> > [e-mail]
> > Sent: 16 March 2020 13:12
> > To: ADD Mailing list ([e-mail]) <[e-mail]>
> > Subject: [EXT] [Add] TR: New Version Notification for draft-btw-add- 
> > home-04.txt
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > We updated the draft to take into account the comments received so 
> > far. The main changes are as follows:
> > * Add new sections to discuss unmanaged CPE scenarios (Sections 3.2 
> > and 8.2)
> > * Add a new section to discuss URI templates discovery (Section 5).
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Med
> >
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De : [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]] 
> > Envoyé : lundi 16 mars 2020 14:07 À : Tirumaleswar Reddy.K; Neil
> Cook;
> > Dan Wing; BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; Tirumaleswar Reddy Objet : New 
> > Version Notification for draft-btw-add-home-04.txt
> >
> >
> > A new version of I-D, draft-btw-add-home-04.txt has been 
> > successfully submitted by Mohamed Boucadair and posted to
> the
> > IETF repository.
> >
> > Name:		draft-btw-add-home
> > Revision:	04
> > Title:		DNS-over-HTTPS and DNS-over-TLS Server Discovery and
> > Deployment Considerations for Home and Mobile Networks
> > Document date:	2020-03-16
> > Group:		Individual Submission
> > Pages:		25
> > URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-btw-add-
> > home-04.txt
> > Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-btw-add-home/
> > Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-btw-add-home-04
> > Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-btw-add-
> > home
> > Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-btw-add-
> home-
> > 04
> >
> > Abstract:
> >    This document discusses DoT/DoH deployment considerations for
> home
> >    networks.  It particularly sketches the required steps to use 
> > DoT/DoH
> >    capabilities provided by local networks.
> >
> >    One of the goals of this document is to assess to what extent
> >    existing tools can be used to provide a DoT/DoH service.  As an
> >    outcome, new DHCP and Router Advertisement Options are specified
> in
> >    order to convey a DNS Authentication Domain Name.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of 
> > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at 
> > tools.ietf.org.
> >
> > The IETF Secretariat
> >
> >
> > --
> > Add mailing list
> > [e-mail]
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/add