Re: [Add] New Version Notification for draft-btw-add-home-04.txt

[Iain Sharp <[e-mail]>]

Thanks - 

> [Med] This would exclude the case of a terminal (without any tethering activated) that connects to the mobile network and retrieves the discovery information (using RA, for example).

That was what my (2), was intended to describe, but I probably didn't describe it correctly. If that is in-scope then I am fine with the title, but I think it at least needs addition of an architecture diagram to show that case.

Regards

Iain


-----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail] <[e-mail]> 
Sent: 18 March 2020 10:48
To: Iain Sharp <[e-mail]>; ADD Mailing list ([e-mail]) <[e-mail]>
Subject: [EXT] RE: New Version Notification for draft-btw-add-home-04.txt

Re-,

Please see inline. 

Cheers,
Med

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Iain Sharp [mailto:[e-mail]] Envoyé : mercredi 18 mars 
> 2020 10:55 À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; ADD Mailing list 
> ([e-mail]) Objet : RE: New Version Notification for 
> draft-btw-add-home-04.txt
> 
> Hi
> 
> Thanks for the clarification text.
> 
> > (2) is definitely out of scope.
> 
> That being the case, then maybe a revision of the title to this would 
> be useful: "DNS-over-HTTPS and DNS-over-TLS Server Discovery and 
> Deployment Considerations for Home Networks and Mobile Tethering"

[Med] This would exclude the case of a terminal (without any tethering activated) that connects to the mobile network and retrieves the discovery information (using RA, for example).

> 
> I think that would really help make clear that the topic is 1) and not 
> 2).
> 
> On terminology, 3GPP uses "UE" for the device that attaches to the 
> mobile network which is one thing that confused me when reading the 
> document.

[Med] I hear you. I think that changing "UE" to "host" would avoid the confusion.   

> 
> Regards
> 
> Iain
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
> Sent: 18 March 2020 09:30
> To: Iain Sharp <[e-mail]>; ADD Mailing list ([e-mail]) 
> <[e-mail]>
> Subject: [EXT] RE: New Version Notification for draft-btw-add-home- 
> 04.txt
> 
> Hi Iain,
> 
> (2) is definitely out of scope.
> 
> I added this NEW text to my local copy:
> 
>    Hosts and/or CPEs may be connected to multiple networks; each
>    providing their own DNS configuration using the discovery 
> mechanisms
>    specified in this document.  Nevertheless, it is out of the scope 
> of
>    this specification to discuss DNS selection of multi-interface
>    devices.  The reader may refer to [RFC6731] for a discussion of
>    issues and an example of DNS server selection for multi-interfaced
>    devices.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Cheers,
> Med
> 
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De : Iain Sharp [mailto:[e-mail]] Envoyé : mardi 17 mars 2020
> > 16:46 À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; ADD Mailing list ([e-mail]) 
> > Objet : RE: New Version Notification for draft-btw-add-home-04.txt
> >
> > Thanks Mohamed,
> >
> > Good points. I see two cases in mobile:
> > 1) Where the mobile device is acting as a gateway between a cellular 
> > network and a local Wi-Fi network. This is what is often called 
> > "tethering" or a "personal hotspot"
> > 2) The behaviour of the operating system and the applications on the 
> > mobile UE itself.
> >
> > From what you have said, it sounds like your intention is to cover 
> > case 1). I agree this has similarities to the residential case so I 
> > can see the sense in covering them together.
> >
> > However, case 2) is the typical case for a mobile which isn't being 
> > used as a personal hotspot. This case has its own issues: for
> example,
> > mobile UEs frequently move between Wi-Fi and cellular coverage and
> may
> > be simultaneously connected to both. Each access type may have a 
> > different local DNS service.
> >
> > If you can add clarity to the scope the text and title that seems 
> > sensible. If you want to cover case 2) fully then that might need an 
> > expanded discussion in the text.
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Iain
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
> > Sent: 17 March 2020 14:02
> > To: Iain Sharp <[e-mail]>; ADD Mailing list ([e-mail]) 
> > <[e-mail]>
> > Subject: [EXT] RE: New Version Notification for draft-btw-add-home- 
> > 04.txt
> >
> > Hi Iain,
> >
> > Thank you for sharing the comments.
> >
> > Please see inline.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Med
> >
> > > -----Message d'origine-----
> > > De : Iain Sharp [mailto:[e-mail]] Envoyé : mardi 17 mars
> 2020
> > > 13:38 À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; ADD Mailing list
> ([e-mail])
> > > Objet : RE: New Version Notification for draft-btw-add-home-04.txt
> > >
> > > Thanks all for creating this draft.
> > >
> > > A few general comments:
> > >
> > > - I am not sure what the terms "LAN" and "CPE" mean in the context
> > of
> > > a mobile network.
> >
> > [Med] CPE (or home routers) can get connectivity via a Fixed
> network,
> > cellular network, or both (called, hybrid CPEs). "LAN" refers to the 
> > home network if you will. We are using these two notions
> independently
> > of how the WAN connectivity is provided.
> >
> >
> >  I think that probably the "LAN" is meant to be the
> > > mobile network itself and the "CPE" is the mobile network's
> Internet
> > > gateway (GGSN, P-Gateway etc.).
> >
> > [Med] Actually, PGW can be seen as an access router in an ISP
> network.
> >
> >  Actually it is quite hard to model
> > > mobile networks with all the layers of tunnelling etc.,
> particularly
> > > if you include "tethering" of external devices to mobile UEs. Some 
> > > more clarity on this area and showing the mapping to normal mobile 
> > > network terminology would be helpful.
> >
> > [Med] Point taken. We will see how to make things more clear. We may 
> > point the reader to:
> > * https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6459 (generic architecture)
> > * https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7849#section-3 (CPE, devices with 
> > tethering features).
> >
> >
> > >
> > > - Section 3.2: There may be other scenarios that are relevant -
> e.g.
> > > the "Internal CPE" talking to a "3rd Party DNS Provider".
> >
> > [Med] Agree. We discuss that particular one in Section 8.2 (see
> Figure
> > 14). We may add cite it in 3.2.
> >
> > >
> > > Editorial comments:
> > >
> > > - Section 3.1: "If a DNS client supports both DoT and DoH, the
> > client
> > > try to establish DoH/DoT sessions..." should be "If a DNS client 
> > > supports both DoT and DoH, the client *MAY* try to establish
> DoH/DoT
> > > sessions..." perhaps.
> > >
> >
> > [Med] Fixed. Thank you.
> >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Iain
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Add <[e-mail]> On Behalf Of 
> > > [e-mail]
> > > Sent: 16 March 2020 13:12
> > > To: ADD Mailing list ([e-mail]) <[e-mail]>
> > > Subject: [EXT] [Add] TR: New Version Notification for draft-btw-
> add-
> > > home-04.txt
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > We updated the draft to take into account the comments received so 
> > > far. The main changes are as follows:
> > > * Add new sections to discuss unmanaged CPE scenarios (Sections
> 3.2
> > > and 8.2)
> > > * Add a new section to discuss URI templates discovery (Section
> 5).
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Med
> > >
> > > -----Message d'origine-----
> > > De : [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]] 
> > > Envoyé : lundi 16 mars 2020 14:07 À : Tirumaleswar Reddy.K; Neil
> > Cook;
> > > Dan Wing; BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN; Tirumaleswar Reddy Objet :
> New
> > > Version Notification for draft-btw-add-home-04.txt
> > >
> > >
> > > A new version of I-D, draft-btw-add-home-04.txt has been 
> > > successfully submitted by Mohamed Boucadair and posted to
> > the
> > > IETF repository.
> > >
> > > Name:		draft-btw-add-home
> > > Revision:	04
> > > Title:		DNS-over-HTTPS and DNS-over-TLS Server Discovery and
> > > Deployment Considerations for Home and Mobile Networks
> > > Document date:	2020-03-16
> > > Group:		Individual Submission
> > > Pages:		25
> > > URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-btw-
> add-
> > > home-04.txt
> > > Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-btw-add-
> home/
> > > Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-btw-add-home-04
> > > Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-btw-
> add-
> > > home
> > > Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-btw-add-
> > home-
> > > 04
> > >
> > > Abstract:
> > >    This document discusses DoT/DoH deployment considerations for
> > home
> > >    networks.  It particularly sketches the required steps to use 
> > > DoT/DoH
> > >    capabilities provided by local networks.
> > >
> > >    One of the goals of this document is to assess to what extent
> > >    existing tools can be used to provide a DoT/DoH service.  As an
> > >    outcome, new DHCP and Router Advertisement Options are
> specified
> > in
> > >    order to convey a DNS Authentication Domain Name.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of 
> > > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at 
> > > tools.ietf.org.
> > >
> > > The IETF Secretariat
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Add mailing list
> > > [e-mail]
> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/add