Re: [alto] Discussion II: Unifying cost-mode and cost-type to a single type

"Scharf, Michael (Michael)" <michael.scharf@alcatel-lucent.com> Mon, 25 February 2013 18:07 UTC

Return-Path: <michael.scharf@alcatel-lucent.com>
X-Original-To: alto@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: alto@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83EDA21F9084 for <alto@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 10:07:59 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -9.532
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.532 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.717, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5KZZY4GiQ1Ws for <alto@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 10:07:58 -0800 (PST)
Received: from smail2.alcatel.fr (smail2.alcatel.fr [64.208.49.57]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19F0E21F9439 for <alto@ietf.org>; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 10:07:55 -0800 (PST)
Received: from FRMRSSXCHHUB02.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com (FRMRSSXCHHUB02.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com [135.120.45.62]) by smail2.alcatel.fr (8.14.3/8.14.3/ICT) with ESMTP id r1PI72O8015255 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 25 Feb 2013 19:07:50 +0100
Received: from FRMRSSXCHMBSE3.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.120.45.56]) by FRMRSSXCHHUB02.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.120.45.62]) with mapi; Mon, 25 Feb 2013 19:07:24 +0100
From: "Scharf, Michael (Michael)" <michael.scharf@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: "Reinaldo Penno (repenno)" <repenno@cisco.com>, Sebastian Kiesel <ietf-alto@skiesel.de>, "Roome, W D" <w.roome@alcatel-lucent.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 19:07:23 +0100
Thread-Topic: [alto] Discussion II: Unifying cost-mode and cost-type to a single type
Thread-Index: AQHOEFD6VY+ntXZyY0eKp/DUkgLdjpiEwAyAgAHOP4CAAXoFAIAC+fWA///QiAA=
Message-ID: <2A886F9088894347A3BE0CC5B7A85F3E9AA10D62E5@FRMRSSXCHMBSE3.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com>
References: <20130223162358.GH9265@gw01.ehlo.wurstkaes.de> <45A697A8FFD7CF48BCF2BE7E106F060409010F3D@xmb-rcd-x04.cisco.com>
In-Reply-To: <45A697A8FFD7CF48BCF2BE7E106F060409010F3D@xmb-rcd-x04.cisco.com>
Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US
Content-Language: de-DE
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
acceptlanguage: de-DE, en-US
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.69 on 155.132.188.80
Cc: "alto@ietf.org" <alto@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [alto] Discussion II: Unifying cost-mode and cost-type to a single type
X-BeenThere: alto@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Application-Layer Traffic Optimization \(alto\) WG mailing list" <alto.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/alto>, <mailto:alto-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/alto>
List-Post: <mailto:alto@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:alto-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/alto>, <mailto:alto-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2013 18:07:59 -0000

> I appreciate the observations related to cost and believe 
> some discussion is warranted but some observations:
> 
> - Lower is better is mostly what you get in routers. For 
> example, OSPF has a well defined metric but you can import 
> BGP routes into OSPF (and
> vice-versa) with default or different metrics. You can add 
> static routes, changes preferences, etc.
> 
> An ALTO Server is no different. It needs to take inputs from 
> different sources and come up with a cost metric.

Yes. One can indeed use different input sources...

> If we need
> to define what cost means I suggest we take the definition 
> from routing folks (for example, ref PCE/BGP). Do they have 
> one? For example, if I dump the forwarding table of a router 
> and it shows that for a certain destination the cost is "50" 
> through a certain interface,  what can I infer from it given 
> the mash of different inputs a router can take to calculate that?

... and there may be input metrics other than BGP/OSPF/... routing cost.

> - Different ALTO Servers might be a problem if they are in 
> different domains. ALTO servers within a single domain that 
> need to exchange cost maps need to use the same algorithms.
> 
> - Different ALTO servers in different domains in another 
> issue. This was an issue we worked on:
> 
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-penno-alto-cdn-03#page-17
> 
> I believe implementations just use BGP cost.

While BGP cost is certainly a very relevant input parameter, we've shown an implementation that can also calculate the ALTO cost e.g. from delay (Section IV.C): http://dx.doi.org/10.1109/ICIN.2012.6376038

How to calculate the cost value really depends on the requirements and policies of the ALTO server operator.

Michael