Re: [Apn] Problem statement

Joel Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com> Sat, 06 May 2023 15:11 UTC

Return-Path: <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
X-Original-To: apn@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: apn@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C66A5C14CE46 for <apn@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 6 May 2023 08:11:14 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.795
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.795 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3aJ6lz-3FTye for <apn@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 6 May 2023 08:11:10 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mailb2.tigertech.net (mailb2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.154]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D7922C15154D for <apn@ietf.org>; Sat, 6 May 2023 08:11:10 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4QD9xB46m6z1nsMY; Sat, 6 May 2023 08:11:10 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=2.tigertech; t=1683385870; bh=RTGmKDk0gqw73xQAGJYug/fmb/R2QVNwT63qGVjK54E=; h=Date:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:In-Reply-To:From; b=OnVNftlj6/fNvuIXQKteWWU7hsnMU9cUqSNygVyLEBJZ12koXxT5MBvv5dWIPSL2N 8xib5XfFy/bN1EyEMB3U6vzU2lljvd3HYFPH6W1f4MnzhzNgUrVw4HBwmcYNzi2DtZ SXSQ0DhJDOfTlztXLjk6C6cNOaYT8r4dPkol1HZ0=
X-Quarantine-ID: <YOacixbwCVS7>
X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at b2.tigertech.net
Received: from [192.168.22.80] (unknown [50.233.136.230]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4QD9x85bVwz1ntRL; Sat, 6 May 2023 08:11:08 -0700 (PDT)
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------il5dg1oJDpqOQ77KJ39EKh0g"
Message-ID: <3d6c249b-43f9-22fd-82b7-a5a22f6fd42a@joelhalpern.com>
Date: Sat, 06 May 2023 11:11:07 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.10.1
Content-Language: en-US
To: "Pengshuping (Peng Shuping)" <pengshuping=40huawei.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, 'Ted Hardie' <ted.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: "apn@ietf.org" <apn@ietf.org>
References: <484bb9971aff4810ae45a756e849420a@huawei.com> <CA+9kkMD7HxsoFemfAjYhJHNsp3RNn3-TeDvewpnMHQy+1bHZGw@mail.gmail.com> <025101d97eb7$4ef7fc10$ece7f430$@olddog.co.uk> <4c31fbbd69724a72952bbd563c22697e@huawei.com>
From: Joel Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
In-Reply-To: <4c31fbbd69724a72952bbd563c22697e@huawei.com>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/apn/HCorP0RbgQyJ9eXgOm8VuUIem18>
Subject: Re: [Apn] Problem statement
X-BeenThere: apn@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: Application-aware Networking <apn.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/apn>, <mailto:apn-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/apn/>
List-Post: <mailto:apn@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:apn-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apn>, <mailto:apn-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 06 May 2023 15:11:14 -0000

Just focusing on the problem statement aspects at this moment, trimming 
the rest.

Yours,

Joel

On 5/6/2023 6:25 AM, Pengshuping (Peng Shuping) wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> These are very good points and suggestions. Thank you!
>
> I try to first summarize the current discussions, which actually lead 
> to three key questions that need to be answered.
>
> 1.What are the core problem?
>
> 2.What are the uses?
>
> 3.What are the key items?
>
> Let’s focus on them one by one.
>
> 1.What are the core problem?
>
> Maybe we could first try to use one sentence to describe this core 
> problem. Considering the discussions, I am thinking that this sentence 
> would be something like “How to maintain continuously the fine 
> granularity within the network in an efficient manner”. Please suggest 
> better wording.
>
> <jmh> My concern is that "maintaining continuously the fine 
> granularity within the network" is itsself a solution to something.  
> It is a means to an end.  Depending upon what we mean by "fine 
> grained" it may or may not be useful.  But there needs to first be a 
> description of what problem the network is trying to solve that leads 
> to fine grained traffic control.

Remember that the history of fine grained traffic control is littered 
with demonstrations that it has not added enough value to justify the 
complexity, and coarse grained was able to meet the needs.

</jmh>