Re: [aqm] Questioning each PIE heuristic - moving averages and rate measurement
Bob Briscoe <ietf@bobbriscoe.net> Wed, 24 May 2017 22:35 UTC
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To: Michael Menth <menth@uni-tuebingen.de>
Cc: "Rong Pan (ropan)" <ropan@cisco.com>, tsvwg IETF list <tsvwg@ietf.org>, AQM IETF list <aqm@ietf.org>
References: <9ddba389-e368-9050-3b14-aa235c99fcb8@bobbriscoe.net> <D4FDD717.2636D%ropan@cisco.com> <77D4FC66-C99F-49D0-BB73-27A0CEF70F31@gmail.com> <99a7b737-fc3c-efd0-b6c8-d71a089b7de8@bobbriscoe.net> <FB0F3D38-63E2-441E-BAB4-2541D7E9FE94@gmail.com> <471e91b1-c469-3d36-9af1-0411e5661286@uni-tuebingen.de>
From: Bob Briscoe <ietf@bobbriscoe.net>
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Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 23:34:58 +0100
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Subject: Re: [aqm] Questioning each PIE heuristic - moving averages and rate measurement
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Michael, I just started reading your paper. Two comments so far: *1) PIE rate averaging is an unfortunate example** *In related work, you mention PIE's measurement of the link rate as an example of use of moving averages. This is an unfortunate example, because the PIE code screws up the calculation. It averages a fraction by averaging the denominator, which I pointed out is wrong in Section 5.3.2 of my PIE review <http://bobbriscoe.net/pubs.html#piervw_tr>. Quoting... "The [PIE] pseudocode continually measures the sequence of dequeue times, t1, t2, t3,... that it takes to transmit constant amounts of bytes (DQ_THRESHOLD). Then the exponentially weighted moving average (EWMA) of the rate should be: ewma(depart_rate) = DQ_THRESHOLD ∗ ewma(1/t1,1/t2,1/t3,...) != DQ_THRESHOLD / ewma(t1,t2,t3,...) " PIE uses the second (incorrect) formula. In the review, I discuss how wrong this could be, with an example. *2) Exponential Moving Average is an Approximation** *In your moving averages paper, you compare your unbiased exponential moving average (UEMA) algorithm with this commonly used exponential moving average (EMA) algorithm: ewma(X) <- (1-a)*X + a*ewma(X) A few years ago I wondered about this comparison, and wrote a 2-page memo for myself to record the proof. I've temporarily uploaded it here: Moving Averages <http://bobbriscoe.net/tmp/ewma.pdf>. I used a Taylor series expansion to show that the iterative formula tends to the exact formula (what you call the unbiased EMA or UEMA) as the number of readings (n) becomes large. When n is not large, you could use the formula at the top of my p2 (just before the Taylor series approximation) to calculate the ratio between the actual (unbiased) UEMA and my regular iterative EMA (REMA). This ratio can be pre-calculated, because its independent of the readings: REMA/UEMA = (1-a)*(Sum_{j=0}^{n-1} a^j) where "theta" in my formula is "a" in yours "Sum_{j=0}^{n-1}" means "the sum from j=0 to j=n-1" Your iterative formula (EMA) starts with an exception, whereas I use an iterative formula that just starts the same as it carries on. To distinguish between them, I have called mine "regular EMA" or REMA. For instance, if a = 0.75 as in your Fig 1(c), then the correction factors for various small numbers of readings, n, are: n UEMA/REMA _____________________ 1 2.29 2 1.73 3 1.46 4 1.31 5 1.22 6 1.15 7 1.11 8 1.08 9 1.06 10 1.04 11 1.03 12 1.02 13 1.02 14 1.01 15 1.01 16 1.01 17 1.01 18 1.00 19 1.00 20 1.00 Cheers Bob On 30/03/17 10:57, Michael Menth wrote: > Hi all, > > Am 30.03.2017 um 11:08 schrieb Jonathan Morton: >>> On 30 Mar, 2017, at 10:46, Bob Briscoe <ietf@bobbriscoe.net> wrote: >>> >>> For PI2 we removed all but 2 and it worked the same or better than PIE in all our tests. I have been assessing each of the other 7 one by one for reinstatement. So far I've rejected 6. I think I can reject this last one by making the sampling time of the base PI algo dependent on the max link rate. Then when the queue goes idle, the base PI algo will decay drop down to zero no slower than the queue drains, without needing this extra heuristic. >> That’s fair enough. >> >> It sounds like the fairly coarsely discrete time intervals in PIE are the main justification for this particular heuristic, so it might be sufficient to document that WRT PIE itself. Using finer time intervals is clearly a better choice for the future. > PIE uses time intervals for measurement purposes and several parameters > contribute. We've recently done some basic work on measurement > methodology that facilitates a comparison of different measurement > approaches and better-informed parametrization by introduction of the > "memory" concept. > https://atlas.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de/~menth/papers/Menth17c.pdf > PIE essentially implements TDRM-DTWMA-UEMA illustrated in Fig. 6d. > > The concept of "memory" can also be applied to moving averages which are > also used in PIE for several purposes. Configuration via a "memory" can > make some heuristics more intuitive. > > Best wishes, > > Michael > > > >> - Jonathan Morton >> -- ________________________________________________________________ Bob Briscoe http://bobbriscoe.net/
- [aqm] Questioning each PIE heuristic Bob Briscoe
- Re: [aqm] Questioning each PIE heuristic Rong Pan (ropan)
- Re: [aqm] Questioning each PIE heuristic Jonathan Morton
- Re: [aqm] Questioning each PIE heuristic Fred Baker
- Re: [aqm] Questioning each PIE heuristic Jonathan Morton
- Re: [aqm] Questioning each PIE heuristic Bless, Roland (TM)
- Re: [aqm] Questioning each PIE heuristic Bob Briscoe
- Re: [aqm] Questioning each PIE heuristic Rong Pan (ropan)
- Re: [aqm] Questioning each PIE heuristic Luca Muscariello
- Re: [aqm] Questioning each PIE heuristic Rong Pan (ropan)
- Re: [aqm] Questioning each PIE heuristic Lautenschlaeger, Wolfram (Nokia - DE/Stuttgart)
- Re: [aqm] Questioning each PIE heuristic Bob Briscoe
- Re: [aqm] Questioning each PIE heuristic Rong Pan (ropan)
- Re: [aqm] Questioning each PIE heuristic Bob Briscoe
- Re: [aqm] Questioning each PIE heuristic Jonathan Morton
- Re: [aqm] Questioning each PIE heuristic - moving… Michael Menth
- Re: [aqm] Questioning each PIE heuristic Dave Dolson
- Re: [aqm] Questioning each PIE heuristic - moving… Bob Briscoe
- Re: [aqm] Questioning each PIE heuristic - moving… Michael Menth
- Re: [aqm] Questioning each PIE heuristic - moving… Bob Briscoe
- Re: [aqm] Questioning each PIE heuristic - moving… Rong Pan (ropan)
- Re: [aqm] Questioning each PIE heuristic - moving… Rong Pan (ropan)
- Re: [aqm] Questioning each PIE heuristic - moving… Bob Briscoe