Re: [arch-d] I-D Action: draft-iab-for-the-users-01.txt

On 18-Nov-19 14:30, Mark Nottingham wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 18 Nov 2019, at 9:29 am, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> There's a lot of good stuff in this draft. Just one point caught my eye:
>>
>>> 4.6.  Deprioritising Internal Needs
>>>
>>>   There are a number of needs that are very visible to us as
>>>   specification authors, but should explicitly not be prioritised over
>>>   the needs of end users.
>>>
>>>   These include: convenience for document editors, IETF process
>>>   matters, and "architectural purity".
>>
>> I suggest making the last point: "architectural purity" for its own sake.
>> There are certainly many cases where the argument *for* architectural
>> purity is the principle of least astonishment, which directly benefits
>> the user experience.
> 
> I like that - thanks.
> 
>> Another point that occurs to me is whether the draft should say something
>> about user interface issues. Of course that topic is out of IETF scope,
>> but the protocol model may affect the UI in ways that have great
>> impact on the user.
> 
> I think that's a *great* area for discussion.

I was thinking of POP3 and IMAP as a case in point. They differ semantically
in a way that is definitely not obvious or intuitive for the normal user.
In one case, fetching a message to device A either deletes the message
from the server, or marks it as already downloaded, so device B can never
fetch it. In the other case, fetching a message to device A leaves it
available for device B, but of course deleting it from device A also makes
it unavailable for device B.

Mixing usage of POP3 and IMAP for the same user+server can be even more
confusing.

Now, I know that IMAP is considered superior and more modern etc., but
this is still a real confusion in the real world.

Any other examples?

   Brian

> 
> 
>>
>> Regards
>>   Brian Carpenter
>>
>> On 18-Nov-19 13:43, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote:
>>>
>>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
>>> This draft is a work item of the Internet Architecture Board IETF of the IETF.
>>>
>>>        Title           : The Internet is for End Users
>>>        Author          : Mark Nottingham
>>> 	Filename        : draft-iab-for-the-users-01.txt
>>> 	Pages           : 11
>>> 	Date            : 2019-11-17
>>>
>>> Abstract:
>>>   This document explains why the IAB believes the IETF should consider
>>>   end users as its highest priority concern, and how that can be done.
>>>
>>>
>>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-iab-for-the-users/
>>>
>>> There are also htmlized versions available at:
>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-iab-for-the-users-01
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-iab-for-the-users-01
>>>
>>> A diff from the previous version is available at:
>>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-iab-for-the-users-01
>>>
>>>
>>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
>>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>>>
>>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
>>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> I-D-Announce mailing list
>>> I-D-Announce@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
>>> Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
>>> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
>>>
>>
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> 
> --
> Mark Nottingham   https://www.mnot.net/
> 
> 