[arch-d] Re: IP Address Geolocation Considered Harmful

[Phillip Hallam-Baker <[e-mail]>]

This is the sort of issue I am talking about when it comes to reliance on
heuristics.

I am very much aware of the copyright and trademark issues that arise from
geolocation, it is one of the areas I specialize in as an expert witness.

But I for one would be very happy with a situation that allows me to see
the content I have paid for available to me regardless of where I happen to
be at the time rather than having to repurchase it just because I am in
another locale.

And I would very much like to get into a position where I am advising
client on how to write contracts so they don't end up litigating
geolocation systems rather than dealing with the wreckage as heuristics
meet reality.



On Mon, Mar 23, 2026 at 1:48 PM Henning Schulzrinne <[e-mail]>
wrote:

> Given the legitimate uses enumerated, I do wonder what will happen if the
> wish of universal VPN usage comes true. I suspect the alternatives will, in
> some cases, be more intrusive and privacy-invading, such as requiring
> registration with a credit card (with a billing address tied to the content
> licensing region). We may not like geographic content restrictions, for
> example, but providers of such content are unlikely to just roll over and
> say "hey, the IETF doesn't like geolocation for IP addresses, so we're
> going to just give up on restricting our content." The goal should be
> minimal information - and it's a lot easier to make that case if there's a
> real alternative available that, say, simply attests that I'm a resident of
> a specific country.
>
> I also don't understand equating telephone area codes, which typically
> include millions of users (and no fewer than about 200,000) in the US and
> at least thousands elsewhere, with violations of privacy.
>
> On Mon, Mar 23, 2026 at 12:40 PM Eric Rescorla <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Mar 23, 2026 at 9: 27 AM Yaakov Stein <ystein=40allot. com@
>> dmarc. ietf. org> wrote: Geolocation based on IP address has many
>> legitimate uses, including content localization and geofencing, better
>> targeting of local advertising, enforcing
>> ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerStart
>>
>> ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerEnd
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 23, 2026 at 9:27 AM Yaakov Stein <ystein=
>> [e-mail]> wrote:
>>
>>> Geolocation based on IP address has many legitimate uses,
>>>
>>> including content localization and geofencing, better targeting of local
>>> advertising, enforcing copyright restrictions,
>>>
>>> network optimization and planning, detecting botnets and other malicious
>>> activity, verifying if taxes apply,
>>>
>>> regulatory compliance, marketing analytics, etc.
>>>
>>> Calling it harmful reminds me of Universal Studios claim that the only
>>> use of a VCR was copying copyrighted material.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The compelling reason behind VPNs is confidentiality. That’s why
>>> businesses use them.
>>>
>>
>>>
>>> If you really desire privacy for legitimate purposes then use OHTTP
>>>
>>> with your true IP being replaced with a geographically nearby one.
>>>
>>
>> O-HTTP depends on the cooperation of the origin. If you want location
>> privacy in
>> all cases you  need something you can deploy unilaterally.
>>
>> -Ekr
>>
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