IETF Logo Mail Archive

[arch-d] Re: IP Address Geolocation Considered Harmful

Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li> Mon, 23 March 2026 19:50 UTC

Return-Path: <tony1athome@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: architecture-discuss@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: architecture-discuss@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 591B6D02C22D for <architecture-discuss@mail2.ietf.org>; Mon, 23 Mar 2026 12:50:05 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.996
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.996 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: mail2.ietf.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ozYXEFzDkHLz for <architecture-discuss@mail2.ietf.org>; Mon, 23 Mar 2026 12:50:04 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-dy1-x132c.google.com (mail-dy1-x132c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::132c]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ED74AD02C226 for <architecture-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 23 Mar 2026 12:50:04 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-dy1-x132c.google.com with SMTP id 5a478bee46e88-2bdd40d3c61so2571261eec.1 for <architecture-discuss@ietf.org>; Mon, 23 Mar 2026 12:50:04 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20251104; t=1774295404; x=1774900204; darn=ietf.org; h=references:to:cc:in-reply-to:date:subject:mime-version:message-id :from:sender:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=6P7CKhpZwha6lfVTT9N4AfTpxXCLXTTd5IByPeJtotM=; b=XWJzLYVJdPBbbb1d9HM20Ia+9XQO+HOJYkDG17zEqnM9g01HBktC3+/XViwLEUglWf SrI3x2kLC8ovdefUBZLmswkZC0mHUG9zGER+izUcKph80ffSYSzxoCB2bLThgkH9C58z gpJ6jbLcZXSUtt2Ptu2kypHx4rj4TQIwrfJMVWGGpaqcJ6P6qU8KWwburUONpCIm7Zdx 45CAWc8avxmbifkcogWyBsFISKsbB6JU0PJRUg0ccxJMieBUwFT8R3UTjvfbD34d2goA u8AMUSxlka+dkHcqqcflkr0qQf4kPvQGMMZI8W3SLZZZVbWeJwihqeRGrtESTqOa7vjr B23w==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20251104; t=1774295404; x=1774900204; h=references:to:cc:in-reply-to:date:subject:mime-version:message-id :from:sender:x-gm-gg:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=6P7CKhpZwha6lfVTT9N4AfTpxXCLXTTd5IByPeJtotM=; b=DX1EZaefRia6POHUlkaoliPC9qJ15Eec+z06Q2m1zKWKYkmCVJ1TX+svo91DyoWiiT viizxS88onqhc2tG4oMhfAsf3FuJ1rQLr9BlIYDgOrvR5hryMaaPUOdNFM6Pjnf2dWvC gh3kV8zfb7gaoF0K6MaX3fUHXcXQ3+aYPalIotvejH6qOhjITIPbEQVhg3Y3578A9XQy hVGvPvo5kotSnVqf934920kyb7uSPJrpFnd25BBz0kqlrxOMVrJprLSUBYfQu5JdFCUJ d72H9hCiqnX94FiFPeJHfB6g9j2WdrJuZXn7ZVrGa6KWy6TFBG2KAP4dSkOQTiyaTjOg E4Pw==
X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCW2Ewnf8MbLUns9TtoYy1HWUuV2eWrpbhMzhVLfTX/pegvoL7wnIVLw8uzkOFANzdtwu9g7xO7v0aXNHqCpyDo0ZOzGMw==@ietf.org
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yys11SQaXNVukfx+L//vhUOZwWpeQ/XGziLJ85tD+S6EGTHrNNE tEbgsyCpcxuQB52ukPkMN4wKrsabB9N669qgXrVDWQ4Fda4ix8Rpcwfw
X-Gm-Gg: ATEYQzyn5eRn5eI+4hhmrGAOLdMG6Gxc3pvuzJ/ixhZLUTGijoXKR7tKVs6W/+FfNBo sXFaOPdAGQ3A7M/LpJVN6vruZTBUvSCOraqwo8c6KSR7fs6uQ2qm8LA+cLycqURwMYimtyFp0Xn Cj1UYsDUkRksBnJNW+vUlRJhxe9cUyFOytd778TsMb10sekEDRXQdUS/v1NGoW1dCRekuk3ulDd zXjEfQ/W90JM0VXIF+KLn8Y6X4nSVC4bRh5zs3KnJPCe3D2yCtd13Y2vpLgOqfZ1Lw1MApDb3GH y8foLL0VQ+D5dDp++LFiwZlUZpaB4H0e5OvhP4AU0D4qO+geTXF3o3KFjLUcWURMr7SIuytaVlA 5SWIuxFVqHP8QOjGBg8sfv8uov/3XOSpFbUlGzJHXBosWnE3edl7ur1UgfGpNbvKcz2hdg/a4X/ YD2Zh+I1nrb8tA6jw/OkPCYgb7iktjD80vz7LTAZ4GYsIdJ3nHdQ3SaX5LmGlbScDqow==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:7301:1685:b0:2bd:b102:a022 with SMTP id 5a478bee46e88-2c109728c15mr5373181eec.27.1774295403583; Mon, 23 Mar 2026 12:50:03 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smtpclient.apple (c-73-93-167-4.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [73.93.167.4]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 5a478bee46e88-2c10b29d28csm16155656eec.19.2026.03.23.12.50.02 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 23 Mar 2026 12:50:03 -0700 (PDT)
Sender: Tony Li <tony1athome@gmail.com>
From: Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li>
Message-Id: <312DA5EE-2FF0-4A02-881E-CE8C9A5476E0@tony.li>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_DBBDBADF-6DC2-4B8E-9BDB-5E84BD50243D"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.700.81.1.4\))
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2026 12:49:52 -0700
In-Reply-To: <e54211ca-d95c-46ff-9283-883f32fab520@lear.ch>
To: Eliot Lear <lear@lear.ch>
References: <AS5PR07MB1059657604189D9A847E14511894BA@AS5PR07MB10596.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <GV1PR08MB73465E95BECC656A3FBC70DDD34BA@GV1PR08MB7346.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com> <AS5PR07MB1059676D1E66D650A94B094FF894BA@AS5PR07MB10596.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <20260323164551.196A6FE1777F@ary.qy> <D2E78C91-D179-4B02-820B-F3C39DB7241B@tony.li> <e54211ca-d95c-46ff-9283-883f32fab520@lear.ch>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.700.81.1.4)
Message-ID-Hash: DJ5BXG4UWDB44DBFQMJZ6XTISOQ3L5DS
X-Message-ID-Hash: DJ5BXG4UWDB44DBFQMJZ6XTISOQ3L5DS
X-MailFrom: tony1athome@gmail.com
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-architecture-discuss.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
CC: John Levine <johnl@ietf.email>, architecture-discuss@ietf.org, john.mattsson@ericsson.com
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
Subject: [arch-d] Re: IP Address Geolocation Considered Harmful
List-Id: open discussion forum for long/wide-range architectural issues <architecture-discuss.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/architecture-discuss/VoE2Fr-_mYJiqTJKhnU_f9ZQTEo>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/architecture-discuss>
List-Help: <mailto:architecture-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:architecture-discuss-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:architecture-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:architecture-discuss-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:architecture-discuss-leave@ietf.org>


> On Mar 23, 2026, at 10:43 AM, Eliot Lear <lear@lear.ch> wrote:
> Totally agree, but to what extent does the topology reflect geography?  I guess satellites change the game a bit…
> 

In general, the topology has several obvious cutsets at continental boundaries, not due to any regulation, but due to the natural costs of submarine links.

This was reinforced by the continental alignment of the RIRs.

Today, routing does not take advantage of this, and we do not see aggregation above the ISP level, but it is an architectural possibility.

LEO satellite constellations that provide access networks where subscribers are numbered out of their nearest geographic gateway do not change this, as providers are using RIR based local allocations.

Regards,
Tony

v2.43.4 | Report a Bug | By Email | System Status