Re: [Asrg] Directing ASRG Activity
Hadmut Danisch <hadmut@danisch.de> Wed, 07 May 2003 13:26 UTC
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From: Hadmut Danisch <hadmut@danisch.de>
To: Yakov Shafranovich <research@solidmatrix.com>
Cc: ASRG Chair <paul.judge@ciphertrust.com>, IRTF Chair <irtf-chair@ietf.org>, asrg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Asrg] Directing ASRG Activity
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Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 15:22:17 +0200
On Wed, May 07, 2003 at 08:24:45AM -0400, Yakov Shafranovich wrote: > I just have been a member of the mailing list for a few days and what I > have seen appalled me. It seems that a small "clique" of people are the > only ones participating, and half of their discussions are squabbles and > personal attacks against each other. It is very hard to get any word in or > any meaningful discussion to be held. You are absolutely right, you observed this very well. This working group was under a certain kind of attack from the very begining. It once was going to become a technical forum where different people were presenting different proposals and different approaches about how to understand and fight against Spam. This is how research and engineering should be. Unfortunately the group was jammed by only a few (really, only a hand full of) persons who started to attack and counterfight any single technical thought, draw every discussion thread to a completely different subject and to especially cover any contribution with a thick layer of noise. Have a look at the discussion archive. Try to find the technical and research related contributions. They are there, but try to find them. Ironically, it was just the Anti-Spam working group which was spoiled by a certain kind of Spam. On one hand, that's a pity. On the other hand, take it as a (unintended) result of research. From my point of view, this gave a good example of sabotage of open working groups, which might also be seen as one aspect of Spam. The reasons for objecting any effort to get rid of Spam are different, as I learned from that group, from background, and from positive and negative comments to my draft: - lazyness, people don't want to clean up and organize their network or change their internet lifestyle - political/freedom of speech: Some people believe that any kind of restriction to sending arbitrary e-mail (address and message body) is a violation of freedom of speech - business: Lots of people earn money with Spam or selling content filters. That's a billion dollar market as we learned at the last group meeting in SF. Solving the Spam problem in a simple way would defeat that market. Some parties commercially depend on their particular business solution against Spam. Finding a world wide standard solution would bring them in trouble. So this particular working group is working against strong existing interests (has this ever happened before with an IETF/IRFT working group?) and therefore without any doubt being antagonized. Maybe the result of this research group is not only the end of a completely open mail system. It might also be the end of an open group system like IETF/IRTF. Take it as a result of research. Hadmut _______________________________________________ Asrg mailing list Asrg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg
- [Asrg] Directing ASRG Activity Yakov Shafranovich
- Re: [Asrg] Directing ASRG Activity Eric Brunner-Williams in Portland Maine
- Re: [Asrg] Directing ASRG Activity Hadmut Danisch
- [Asrg] RE: Directing ASRG Activity Paul Judge
- Fwd: [Asrg] RE: Directing ASRG Activity Yakov Shafranovich
- Re: [Asrg] RE: Directing ASRG Activity Scott Nelson
- Re: [Asrg] Some data on the validity of MAIL FROM… Justin Mason
- Re: [Asrg] 0. General - Verisign to suspend SiteF… Eric Brunner-Williams in Portland Maine