Re: [Asrg] Introduction and another idea

Vernon Schryver <vjs@calcite.rhyolite.com> Tue, 17 June 2003 20:06 UTC

Received: from www1.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA08425 for <asrg-archive@odin.ietf.org>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:06:16 -0400 (EDT)
Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id h5HK5m926296 for asrg-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 16:05:48 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19SMSB-0006IC-SO for asrg-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:49:15 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA07711; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:49:13 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19SMPx-0004FG-00; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:46:57 -0400
Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19SMPw-0004FD-00; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:46:56 -0400
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19SMKF-0004s1-Nv; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:41:03 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19SM1X-0002Wa-R2 for asrg@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:21:43 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA05738 for <asrg@ietf.org>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:21:42 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19SLzJ-0003oY-00 for asrg@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:19:25 -0400
Received: from calcite.rhyolite.com ([192.188.61.3]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19SLzI-0003oV-00 for asrg@ietf.org; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 15:19:24 -0400
Received: (from vjs@localhost) by calcite.rhyolite.com (8.12.10.Beta0/8.12.10.Beta0) id h5HJLd15025117 for asrg@ietf.org env-from <vjs>; Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:21:39 -0600 (MDT)
From: Vernon Schryver <vjs@calcite.rhyolite.com>
Message-Id: <200306171921.h5HJLd15025117@calcite.rhyolite.com>
To: asrg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Asrg] Introduction and another idea
References: <B0000024037@nts1.terabites.com>
Sender: asrg-admin@ietf.org
Errors-To: asrg-admin@ietf.org
X-BeenThere: asrg@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12
Precedence: bulk
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg>, <mailto:asrg-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Id: Anti-Spam Research Group - IRTF <asrg.ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:asrg@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:asrg-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg>, <mailto:asrg-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
List-Archive: <https://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/asrg/>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:21:39 -0600

> From: gep2@terabites.com

> ...
> The point being that spam is at least 3-5x bulkier, FAR more difficult to 
> identify, and far more dangerous, if it can incorporate (1) HTML, (including 
> clickable hotlinks, images, scripting, and so forth), (2) attachments (virtually 
> all worms and viruses are based on attachments), and (3) base64 or other 
> encoding. ...

I can sympathize with (1 and can almost agree with (2), but (3) is
wrong.  Base64 and quoted-printable encoding do not increase the
size of mail by much.  They themselves carry no risks of nasty
content.  Finally, they provide no cover for the nasty stuff except
from naive, simplistic, and broken-by design filters and other
defenses.  All reasonable filters decode Base64, Quoted-Printable,
and even HTML &-numeric and &-name character references.  %-decoding
is also straightforward and on its way to being de facto standard
for filters that are not practically useless toys.


> relatively small number of senders for any given recipient who can send them 
> mail containing those things. ...

If not today then soon most users of email have only the alternatives
of receiving mail in languages and character sets they don't understand
or receiving mail encoded with Base64 or quoted-printable mail.

That I use a 20 year-old MUA that cannot encode Base64 or QP at all,
cannot decode QP at all, and cannot really decode Base64, and that I
receive legitimate encoded mail about once a month is irrelevant.
That I must start special systems and copy files among them to send
encoded documents that other people demand matters to no one except
me.  My situation and preferences and the situations and preferences
of old farts like me are irrelevant to the vast majority of users
and so irrelevant here.


Vernon Schryver    vjs@rhyolite.com

_______________________________________________
Asrg mailing list
Asrg@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg