Re: [Asrg] An "ideal" false positive (TMGRS take 2)
Rich Kulawiec <rsk@gsp.org> Fri, 29 January 2010 13:55 UTC
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Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 08:56:07 -0500
From: Rich Kulawiec <rsk@gsp.org>
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Subject: Re: [Asrg] An "ideal" false positive (TMGRS take 2)
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On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 07:04:42PM +0100, Alessandro Vesely wrote: > Alice reports as spam a message from Bob, either by mistake or out > of curiosity. But there is no way to know that Alice actually filed the report or that Bob actually sent the message. If either Alice's or Bob's system is a zombie, which -- if they're running Windows -- already has a two-digit percentage probability which has been monotonically increasing for most of a decade -- then there is no way for any external observer to distinguish between: - Alice pushed the report-as-spam button - Malware resident on Alice's system pushed the report-as-spam button Nor is there any way for any external observer to distinguish between: - Bob sent the message - Malware resident on Bob's system sent the message We already know that the latter case happens billions of times a day (at least) on hundreds of millions of systems. There is no reason to think that the former won't happen too, if report-as-spam buttons become ubiquitous/standardized, and every reason to think it *will* happen. There are even some reasons to think it has already happened. Let me also note in passing that there is no way for any external observer to distinguish between: - Alice did not push the report-as-spam button - Alice pushed the report-as-spam button, but malware resident on Alice's system intercepted the push, prevented the information from being transmitted, yet told Alice that it had been sent My point being that even if we accept that users are reliable classifiers of spam/not-spam (and I've already expressed in another thread that I think they're utterly incompetent, but let's ignore that for now) there is no way to know that apparently-user-originated input via such a mechanism is in fact user-originated. There are at minimum 100M zombies out there (lesser estimates should be laughed out of the room) and more every minute. I see no reason -- at the moment -- why that number won't steadily continue to increase over the next several years, which is as far as my crystal ball will let me see. ;-) Given that, setting up a mechanism that spammers and other abusers can co-opt for their own purposes *at will* appears to me to be a pointless exercise. ---Rsk
- [Asrg] An "ideal" false positive (TMGRS take 2) Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [Asrg] An "ideal" false positive (TMGRS take … Rich Kulawiec
- Re: [Asrg] An "ideal" false positive (TMGRS take … Ian Eiloart
- Re: [Asrg] An "ideal" false positive (TMGRS take … Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [Asrg] An "ideal" false positive (TMGRS take … Rich Kulawiec
- Re: [Asrg] An "ideal" false positive (TMGRS take … Steve Atkins
- Re: [Asrg] An "ideal" false positive (TMGRS take … Michael Thomas
- Re: [Asrg] An "ideal" false positive (TMGRS take … Rich Kulawiec
- Re: [Asrg] An "ideal" false positive (TMGRS take … der Mouse
- Re: [Asrg] An "ideal" false positive (TMGRS take … Rich Kulawiec
- Re: [Asrg] An "ideal" false positive (TMGRS take … Michael Thomas
- Re: [Asrg] An "ideal" false positive (TMGRS take … Rich Kulawiec
- Re: [Asrg] An "ideal" false positive (TMGRS take … der Mouse
- Re: [Asrg] An "ideal" false positive (TMGRS take … Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [Asrg] An "ideal" false positive (TMGRS take … Ian Eiloart
- Re: [Asrg] An "ideal" false positive (TMGRS take … John Levine
- Re: [Asrg] An "ideal" false positive (TMGRS take … Rich Kulawiec
- Re: [Asrg] An "ideal" false positive (TMGRS take … Alessandro Vesely