Re: [Asrg] Getting group consensus on draft-irtf-asrg-bcp-blacklists

[Neil Schwartzman <[e-mail]>]

On Mar 1, 2011, at 6:46 PM, Jason Bertoch wrote:

> 
> While I disagree with Claus' particular rhetoric, I somehow feel that everyone who argued against him wouldn't be quite as judgemental against a paid whitelist like ReturnPath.  Not only that, UCEPROTECT is ultimately free...one would only pay for human intervention if the automatic timeframe just isn't soon enough.  Sure, I believe the practice of paying to upgrade your reputation is slimy at best, but why does the BCP pick on neg-rep lists when they, if anyone, SHOULD have evidence of wrong doing?
> 
> I'm sorry to pick on ReturnPath...Neil and J.D. have been exceptionally patient on the SA list, and RP's accuracy has improved considerably over the years (though the clarity of reporting issue still needs resolving)...but, in the end, the BCP needs to pick on no-one or pick on everyone that nets the same result.

Just to clarify a couple of points:

1. I am no longer working for Return Path. Everyone there remains in my highest esteem, and
2. I disagree with you. Negative reputation is something no-one wants, nor should you be able to buy your way out of it. Conversely, a positive bump to differentiate you from the competition is valuable (but no, no-one who is a crappy sender could bribe their way onto the list, not while I was there, and not since I left), and something those that benefit from the service should pay for, just as ISPs should pay for the use of a DNSBL.

Just as a DNSBL is expected to block all crappy traffic they know about, so too is a whitelist expected to only list the good traffic they know about. While we had some heated debates over the years concerning sanctions to take against clients (I always voted for firing), delisting is just as painful, especially when a client is paying a certification company, and isn't certified. ;-)

I will note that other companies also charged for certifying - Goodmail, and now Spamhaus, among others. Just as it should be. Whitelisting and blacklisting are two different beasts, serving two different masters, and thus, two different business models.


cheers,

n

--
Neil Schwartzman
Executive Director
CAUCE
The Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial Email, North America Inc.

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