Re: [auth48] [EXTERNAL] AUTH48: RFC-to-be 9406 <draft-ietf-tcpm-hystartplusplus-14> for your review

[Lynne Bartholomew <[e-mail]>]

Hi, Yi.  This text is not a grammatical error; it is referred to as "subjunctive mood".  It is often used in RFCs.

If you prefer that subjunctive mood not be used in this document*, please let us know, and we will remove any instances of subjunctive mood that we find.

* This phrase itself is an example of subjunctive mood.

Thank you.

RFC Editor/lb

> On May 1, 2023, at 4:02 PM, Yi Huang <[e-mail]> wrote:
> 
> Thanks for adding the street full address.
> 
> In section 4.3, there's a grammatical error that needs to be corrected.
> Original:
> "It is RECOMMENDED that a HyStart++ implementation use the following"
> 
> Proposal:
> "It is RECOMMENDED that a HyStart++ implementation uses the following"

> From: Lynne Bartholomew <[e-mail]>
> Sent: Monday, May 1, 2023 3:49 PM
> To: Yi Huang <[e-mail]>
> Cc: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>; Matt Olson <[e-mail]>; [e-mail] <[e-mail]>; [e-mail] <[e-mail]>; [e-mail] <[e-mail]>; [e-mail] <[e-mail]>; Martin Duke <[e-mail]>; [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] AUTH48: RFC-to-be 9406 <draft-ietf-tcpm-hystartplusplus-14> for your review
>  Hi, Yi.  No worries, and thank you for this prompt reply as well!
> 
> We have made further updates per your notes below.  Per your address listing, we also included "One Microsoft Way".  Please let us know if Matt's street address should be different.
> 
> The latest files are posted here.  Please refresh your browser:
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> 
> Thanks again!
> 
> RFC Editor/lb
> 
> > On May 1, 2023, at 3:41 PM, Yi Huang <[e-mail]> wrote:
> > 
> > Oh, my apologies. I pasted it in the wrong place.
> > 
> >     • "HyStart exit" should be changed to "slow start exit", which refers to the pseudocode "exit slow start and enter CSS".
> >     • ECN is Explicit Congestion Notification.
> > One minor issue in "Authros' Addresses" section, could you please add "Redmond, WA 98052" to Matt Olson's address to be consistent with other authors' info?
> > Original:
> >    Matt Olson
> >    Microsoft
> >    Phone: [phone]
> >    Email: [e-mail]
> > 
> > Proposal:
> > 
> >    Matt Olson
> >    Microsoft
> >    Redmond, WA 98052
> >    Phone: [phone]
> >    Email: [e-mail]
> > 
> > ---------------------------------------------------
> > Thanks,
> > Yi
> > 
> > From: Lynne Bartholomew <[e-mail]>
> > Sent: Monday, May 1, 2023 3:21 PM
> > To: Yi Huang <[e-mail]>
> > Cc: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>; Matt Olson <[e-mail]>; [e-mail] <[e-mail]>; [e-mail] <[e-mail]>; [e-mail] <[e-mail]>; [e-mail] <[e-mail]>; Martin Duke <[e-mail]>; [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
> > Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] AUTH48: RFC-to-be 9406 <draft-ietf-tcpm-hystartplusplus-14> for your review
> >  [You don't often get email from [e-mail]. Learn why this is important athttps://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification ]
> > 
> > Hi, Yi.  Thank you for your prompt reply!
> > 
> > We have updated this document per your notes below.
> > 
> > A couple quick follow-up items for you:
> > 
> > It appears that our question 4)b) (re. not finding "cssBaselineMinRtt" mentioned in any other RFC) was answered by this reply to question 5):
> > 
> > >> 5) <!-- [rfced] Section 4.2:  We defined "ECN" as "Explicit Congestion
> > >> Notification" for ease of the reader.  If this definition is
> > >> incorrect, please provide the correct definition of "ECN".
> > >>
> > >> Original:
> > >>  If loss or ECN-marking is observed anytime during standard slow start
> > >>  or CSS, enter congestion avoidance by setting ssthresh to current
> > >>  cwnd.
> > >>
> > >> Currently:
> > >>  If loss or Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) marking is observed
> > >>  at any time during standard slow start or CSS, enter congestion
> > >>  avoidance by setting the ssthresh to the current cwnd. -->
> > >
> > > It's referred a few paragraphs below.
> > >
> > > In "For CSS rounds where at least N_RTT_SAMPLE RTT samples have been obtained, check if current round's minRTT drops below baseline indicating that HyStart exit was spurious:", the word, "baseline" refers to cssBaselineMinRtt. I suggest we change the line to "For CSS rounds where at least N_RTT_SAMPLE RTT samples have been obtained, check if current round's minRTT drops below the baseline, cssBaselineMinRtt, indicating that HyStart exit was spurious:"?
> > 
> > First, apologies for not spotting this earlier and asking about it:  Should "HyStart exit" be "HyStart++ exit"?
> > 
> > Second, please let us know if our expansion of "ECN" as "Explicit Congestion Notification" is correct.  If it's not correct, please let us know how it should be defined.
> > 
> > = = = = =
> > 
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> > 
> > Thanks again!
> > 
> > RFC Editor/lb
> > 
> > > On Apr 28, 2023, at 8:54 PM, Yi Huang <[e-mail]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Lynne,
> > >
> > > Thanks a lot for reviewing and editing the doc. I have inlined our answers.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Yi
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Lynne Bartholomew <[e-mail]>
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2023 3:22 PM
> > > To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>; Yi Huang <[e-mail]>; Matt Olson <[e-mail]>
> > > Cc: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>; [e-mail] <[e-mail]>; [e-mail] <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]<[e-mail]>; Martin Duke <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]<[e-mail]>
> > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: AUTH48: RFC-to-be 9406 <draft-ietf-tcpm-hystartplusplus-14> for your review
> > >  [Some people who received this message don't often get email from [e-mail]. Learn why this is important athttps://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification ]
> > >
> > > Authors,
> > >
> > > While reviewing this document during AUTH48, please resolve (as necessary) the following questions, which are also in the XML file.
> > >
> > > 1) <!-- [rfced] Document title, Abstract, and Introduction:  As the term
> > > "HyStart" has not been used in any published RFCs to date and the
> > > word "hybrid" is not used in this document, would it be helpful to
> > > define HyStart++ for readers?
> > >
> > > Original:
> > >  HyStart++: Modified Slow Start for TCP
> > > ...
> > >  This document describes HyStart++, a simple modification to the slow
> > >  start phase of congestion control algorithms.
> > > ...
> > >  HyStart++ uses increase in round-trip delay as a signal to exit slow
> > >  start before potential packet loss occurs as a result of overshoot.
> > >  This is one of two algorithms specified in [HyStart].
> > >
> > > Perhaps:
> > >  HyStart++: Modified "Hybrid Start" Slow Start Algorithm for TCP
> > > ...
> > >  This document describes HyStart++, a simple modification to the
> > >  "Hybrid Start" slow start phase of congestion control algorithms.
> > > ...
> > >  HyStart++, which is a modified "Hybrid Start" slow start algorithm,
> > >  uses an increase in round-trip delay as a signal to exit slow
> > >  start before potential packet loss occurs as a result of
> > >  overshoot.  This is one of two algorithms specified in [HyStart]. -->
> > >
> > > How about in the introduction we modify seocnd para as:
> > > HyStart++ builds upon Hybrid Start (HyStart) originally described in [HyStart]. HyStart++ uses increase in round-trip delay as a signal to exit slow start before potential packet loss occurs as a result of overshoot.
> > >
> > >
> > > 2) <!-- [rfced] Section 1:  In this current text, "This is one of two
> > > algorithms" appears to refer to HyStart++.  However, we do not see
> > > HyStart++ mentioned anywhere in [HyStart].  Also, we only see one
> > > algorithm defined in [HyStart]:  "We propose a new slow start
> > > algorithm, called Hybrid Start (HyStart) ...").
> > >
> > > How can this text be clarified for readers?  For example, would
> > > "[HyStart] specifies two algorithms (a "Delay Increase" algorithm and
> > > an "Inter-Packet Arrival" algorithm) to be run in parallel to detect
> > > that the sending rate has reached capacity" from Section 4.1 also
> > > apply to this text here in Section 1?
> > >
> > > Original (the previous sentence and the next sentence are included
> > >    for context):
> > >  HyStart++ uses increase in round-trip delay as a signal to exit slow
> > >  start before potential packet loss occurs as a result of overshoot.
> > >  This is one of two algorithms specified in [HyStart].  After the slow
> > >  start exit, a new Conservative Slow Start (CSS) phase is used to
> > >  determine whether the slow start exit was premature and to resume
> > >  slow start. -->
> > >
> > > To be clear, Hystart++ itself is not mentioned in [HyStart]. Hystart++ uses the "delay increase" algorithm in [Hystart] for detecting a safe exit point for slow start. Can we just rephrase " This is one of two algorithms specified in [HyStart]" to "This is one of two algorithms specified in [HyStart] for finding a safe exit point for slow start."?
> > >
> > > 3) <!-- [rfced] Please review the "type" attribute of each sourcecode
> > > element in the XML file to ensure correctness.  If you would like to
> > > make any changes and the current list of preferred values for "type"
> > > as listed on <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rfc-editor.org%2Fmaterials%2Fsourcecode-types.txt&data=05%7C01%7Chuanyi%40microsoft.com%7C0246c4008b854c06891708db4a96551b%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638185782323801462%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=32jyTY809Ozgu3mpkUuriR5IEIcsZPM%2FD6ONmt2GQd8%3D&reserved=0>
> > > does not contain an applicable type, then feel free to let us know.
> > > Also, it is acceptable to leave the "type" attribute not set. -->
> > >
> > > Can we just not set the "type" attribute? The pseudocode doesn't map to a real programming language.
> > >
> > > 4) <!-- [rfced] Section 4.2:
> > >
> > > a) The following two lines are too long for the text output.  We get
> > > the following warning:
> > >
> > > Warning: Too long line found (L207), 7 characters longer than 72 characters:
> > >      Compute an RTT Threshold clamped between MIN_RTT_THRESH and MAX_RTT_THRESH
> > > Warning: Too long line found (L208), 20 characters longer than 72 characters:
> > >      RttThresh = max(MIN_RTT_THRESH, min(lastRoundMinRTT / MIN_RTT_DIVISOR, MAX_RTT_THRESH))
> > >
> > > Please let us know where line breaks should be placed.
> > >
> > > Original (the line break after "DIVISOR," is introduced by
> > >   our Terminal-window-line-length constraint):
> > >  Compute a RTT Threshold clamped between MIN_RTT_THRESH and MAX_RTT_THRESH
> > >  RttThresh = max(MIN_RTT_THRESH, min(lastRoundMinRTT / MIN_RTT_DIVISOR, MAX_RTT_THRESH))
> > >
> > > Possibly:
> > >  Compute an RTT Threshold clamped between MIN_RTT_THRESH and
> > >    MAX_RTT_THRESH
> > >  RttThresh = max(MIN_RTT_THRESH,
> > >    min(lastRoundMinRTT / MIN_RTT_DIVISOR, MAX_RTT_THRESH))
> > >
> > > b) We do not see "cssBaselineMinRtt" used in any RFC.  Will this
> > > parameter be clear to readers?
> > >
> > > Original:
> > >  cssBaselineMinRtt = currentRoundMinRTT
> > > ...
> > >  if (currentRoundMinRTT < cssBaselineMinRtt)
> > >    cssBaselineMinRtt = infinity -->
> > >
> > > I think we can remove "Compute an RTT Threshold clamped between MIN_RTT_THRESH and MAX_RTT_THRESH" as it's just an explanation of the following line, which is clear enough. The suggested line break looks good to me.
> > >
> > > 5) <!-- [rfced] Section 4.2:  We defined "ECN" as "Explicit Congestion
> > > Notification" for ease of the reader.  If this definition is
> > > incorrect, please provide the correct definition of "ECN".
> > >
> > > Original:
> > >  If loss or ECN-marking is observed anytime during standard slow start
> > >  or CSS, enter congestion avoidance by setting ssthresh to current
> > >  cwnd.
> > >
> > > Currently:
> > >  If loss or Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) marking is observed
> > >  at any time during standard slow start or CSS, enter congestion
> > >  avoidance by setting the ssthresh to the current cwnd. -->
> > >
> > > It's referred a few paragraphs below.
> > >
> > > In "For CSS rounds where at least N_RTT_SAMPLE RTT samples have been obtained, check if current round's minRTT drops below baseline indicating that HyStart exit was spurious:", the word, "baseline" refers to cssBaselineMinRtt. I suggest we change the line to "For CSS rounds where at least N_RTT_SAMPLE RTT samples have been obtained, check if current round's minRTT drops below the baseline, cssBaselineMinRtt, indicating that HyStart exit was spurious:"?
> > >
> > > 6) <!-- [rfced] Section 5:  We changed "As of February 2023" to "At the
> > > time of this writing".  If this is incorrect, please provide
> > > clarifying text.
> > >
> > > Original:
> > >  As of February 2023, HyStart++ as described in this document has been
> > >  default enabled for all TCP connections in the Windows operating
> > >  system for over two years with pacing disabled and an actual L = 8.
> > >
> > > Currently:
> > >  At the time of this writing, HyStart++ as described in this document
> > >  has been default enabled for all TCP connections in the Windows
> > >  operating system for over two years with pacing disabled and an
> > >  actual L = 8. -->
> > > Correct
> > >
> > >
> > > 7) <!-- [rfced] Section 5:  Will the meaning of "HyStart++ draft 01" be
> > > clear to readers?  If not, please provide clarifying text.
> > >
> > > Original:
> > >  In an A/B test where we compare HyStart++ draft 01 to traditional
> > >  slow start across a large Windows device population, out of 52
> > >  billion TCP connections, 0.7% of connections move from 1 RTO to 0
> > >  RTOs and another 0.7% connections move from 2 RTOs to 1 RTO with
> > >  HyStart++. -->
> > >
> > > I would say we remove draft 01, as its not useful to the reader to implement an earlier version of the algorithm:
> > >
> > > "In an A/B test where we compared an implementation of HyStart++ (based on an earlier draft of this document) to traditional
> > >  slow start across a large Windows device population,"
> > >
> > > 8) <!-- [rfced] Please review the "Inclusive Language" portion of the
> > > online Style Guide at
> > > <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rfc-editor.org%2Fstyleguide%2Fpart2%2F%23inclusive_language&data=05%7C01%7Chuanyi%40microsoft.com%7C0246c4008b854c06891708db4a96551b%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638185782323801462%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=apb60%2BZtlQv%2FotcFvH89Pl27am16yfoSZHV9MtGAX9A%3D&reserved=0>,
> > > and let us know if any changes are needed.
> > >
> > > In addition, please consider whether "traditional" should be updated
> > > for clarity.  In this document, could "standard slow start" (as seen
> > > in Section 4.2) be used instead of "traditional slow start"?
> > >
> > > While the NIST website
> > > (<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nist.gov%2Fnist-research-library%2Fnist-technical-series-publications-author-instructions%23table1&data=05%7C01%7Chuanyi%40microsoft.com%7C0246c4008b854c06891708db4a96551b%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638185782323801462%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=UajOm37PVCXQ4F8F%2FpS%2BVKYe%2Bw0HATWh1JLLJzbt54A%3D&reserved=0>)
> > > indicates that this term is potentially biased, it is also ambiguous.
> > > "Tradition" is a subjective term, as it is not the same for everyone. -->
> > >
> > > Agreed. Standard slow start is better.
> > >
> > > 9) <!-- [rfced] The following terms were used inconsistently in this
> > > document.  We chose to use the latter forms.  Please let us know any
> > > objections.
> > >
> > >  Hystart++ (6 instances) / HyStart++ (23 instances) (per [HyStart])
> > >  INFINITY (1 instance) / infinity (11 instances) -->
> > >
> > > The latter forms are better, HyStart++ and infinity.
> > >
> > > Thank you.
> > >
> > > RFC Editor/lb
> > >
> > > > On Apr 27, 2023, at 3:12 PM, [e-mail] wrote:
> > > >
> > > > *****IMPORTANT*****
> > > >
> > > > Updated 2023/04/27
> > > >
> > > > RFC Author(s):
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> > > > For your convenience, we have also created an alt-diff file that will allow you to
> > > > more easily view changes where text has been deleted or moved:
> > > >   https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rfc-editor.org%2Fauthors%2Frfc9406-alt-diff.html&data=05%7C01%7Chuanyi%40microsoft.com%7C0246c4008b854c06891708db4a96551b%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638185782323957704%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Y4hp4cRmy96R1OQ9SALv2mW5vmMKq0Sj0k%2F3pPJwJRk%3D&reserved=0
> > > >
> > > > Diffs of the XML:
> > > >   https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rfc-editor.org%2Fauthors%2Frfc9406-xmldiff1.html&data=05%7C01%7Chuanyi%40microsoft.com%7C0246c4008b854c06891708db4a96551b%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638185782323957704%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=7oiOFgN1GbeL0apupCKD3UkKytwOJHSUr6lE%2BY36QvE%3D&reserved=0
> > > >   https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rfc-editor.org%2Fauthors%2Frfc9406-xmldiff2.html&data=05%7C01%7Chuanyi%40microsoft.com%7C0246c4008b854c06891708db4a96551b%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638185782323957704%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=v6SCh3AQDmTCO9m6WOll%2FtEY1vypb6i9IG634vr%2Bl8I%3D&reserved=0
> > > >
> > > > The following files are provided to facilitate creation of your own
> > > > diff files of the XML.
> > > >
> > > > Initial XMLv3 created using XMLv2 as input:
> > > >   https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rfc-editor.org%2Fauthors%2Frfc9406.original.v2v3.xml&data=05%7C01%7Chuanyi%40microsoft.com%7C0246c4008b854c06891708db4a96551b%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638185782323957704%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=lU5Ow62qThPDzYSOr2BWC6qzaWL1Ch6RkkcB1sR7ZB0%3D&reserved=0
> > > >
> > > > XMLv3 file that is a best effort to capture v3-related format updates
> > > > only:
> > > >   https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rfc-editor.org%2Fauthors%2Frfc9406.form.xml&data=05%7C01%7Chuanyi%40microsoft.com%7C0246c4008b854c06891708db4a96551b%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638185782323957704%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=YyOxiGB6GdHVWzDHzOu1X%2FFYxjiwqd%2FcZrz6o3Xk6ac%3D&reserved=0
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Tracking progress
> > > > -----------------
> > > >
> > > > The details of the AUTH48 status of your document are here:
> > > >   https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rfc-editor.org%2Fauth48%2Frfc9406&data=05%7C01%7Chuanyi%40microsoft.com%7C0246c4008b854c06891708db4a96551b%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638185782323957704%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=BwrjlPf3ih%2BQu6e4BonQfAKUSmbhn3aF%2Bm1lIyi5BvU%3D&reserved=0
> > > >
> > > > Please let us know if you have any questions.
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for your cooperation.
> > > >
> > > > RFC Editor
> > > >
> > > > --------------------------------------
> > > > RFC9406 (draft-ietf-tcpm-hystartplusplus-14)
> > > >
> > > > Title            : HyStart++: Modified Slow Start for TCP
> > > > Author(s)        : P. Balasubramanian, Y. Huang, M. Olson
> > > > WG Chair(s)      : Yoshifumi Nishida, Michael Tüxen, Ian Swett
> > > >
> > > > Area Director(s) : Martin Duke, Zaheduzzaman Sarker
> > > >