Re: [AVT] AVT Charter update
"Michael A. Ramalho" <mramalho@cisco.com> Tue, 02 September 2003 14:25 UTC
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Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 10:17:10 -0400
To: Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>, IETF AVT WG <avt@ietf.org>
From: "Michael A. Ramalho" <mramalho@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [AVT] AVT Charter update
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At 02:33 PM 9/2/2003 +0200, Magnus Westerlund wrote: >Hi, > >In Vienna we chairs presented a proposal for a new charter for the WG. We >have now made some smaller updates: >- One editorial change removing the word RFC from the bullet regarding RTP >payload format being advanced to draft standard. >- Added milestones for iLBC and RTP framing over TCP and TLS. > >The WG is given one more week (until the 9th of September) for review, we >will then submit it for approval by the Area Director. Please send any >comments to the list or the chairs. Magnus/Colin, In regard to new "codecs". I understand the iLBC exception, as AVT has been working this issue with iLBC for quite a while. My question regards the RGL freeware codec (see www.vovida.org or draft-ramalho-rgl-desc-01.txt). As the AVT chairs know, RGL is really a LOSSLESS COMPRESSION technique (which I now wished that I named "RGL compression" instead of "RGL codec"). RGL performs NO SIGNAL PROCESSING on the underlying G.711 PCM frame provided as input to it. Therefore the rationale provided in the proposed AVT Charter for not codifying "new codecs" does not apply: "The group continues to be precluded from work on codecs themselves because of overlap with the other standards bodies, and because the IETF does not have the ability to effectively review new codecs." As AVT specifies other compression techniques (e.g., Compressed RTP framework), the necessary expertise to review RGL clearly exists in AVT. Questions: Could RGL be explicitly included? Should I re-name RGL to "RGL compression"? Could the Charter specifically include compression techniques on codec output frames themselves (as RGL does for G.711)? [As you know, other lossy codecs will normally attempt to remove payload redundancy and render the resulting lossy codec output relatively random ... so this issue is moot for iLBC, BV8, G.729, etc.] Lastly, I note that it is a reasonable expectation that other "lossless payload compression" techniques may use similar techniques. For example: 1 - streaming of real-time MRI images - where the medical professionals want "lossless" frames or "no" image frames (you don't want to diagnose off of a lossy compression created artifact), or 2 - satellite imaging from outer space probes where you desire lossless compression (one of Professor Rice's - of Rice coding fame - initial applications). [One could argue traditional IETF reliable transports for 1, but not for 2]. We don't need the ITU-T/ETSI/etc. organization's expertise for these "lossless payload compression" applications either. Best Regards, Michael Ramalho >Best Regards > >Magnus Westerlund > >Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVA/A >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Ericsson AB | Phone +46 8 4048287 >Torshamsgatan 23 | Fax +46 8 7575550 >S-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com > > >The Audio/Video Transport Working Group was formed to specify a protocol >for real-time transmission of audio and video over unicast and multicast >UDP/IP. This is the Real-time Transport Protocol, RTP, together with its >associated profiles and payload formats. The current aims of the working >group are: - to advance the >main RTP specification and RTP Profile for Audio and Video Conferences >with Minimal Control for publication as full Internet Standards - to >review and revise existing payload formats to advance those which are >useful to Draft Standard, and to declare others as Historic. Milestones >will be established as a champion for each payload format is >identified. - to develop payload formats for new media codecs, and >to document best-current practices in payload format design. The >group continues to be precluded from work on codecs themselves because >of overlap with the other standards bodies, and because the IETF does >not have the ability to effectively review new codecs. An exception was >made for the freeware iLBC codec on a highly experimental basis, but >acceptance of new codec work is unexpected and subject to rechartering. >- to complete the forward error correction work in the ULP and UXP >payload formats - to extend RTP to work with Source-Specific Multicast >sessions with unicast feedback - to provide a framing mechanism for RTP >over TCP and TLS - to review the applicability of Compressed RTP operation >on MPLS networks, developing extensions as necessary - to develop a new >RTP profile as the combination of the SRTP profile and the Extended RTP >Profile for RTCP-based Feedback (RTP/SAVPF) The group will also >coordinate with the DCCP working group to ensure that RTP can be >efficiently transported over DCCP. The longer term goals of the working >group are to advance the SRTP Profile, the Extended RTP Profile for >RTCP-based Feedback, the Compressed RTP framework, and the RTP MIB to >Draft Standard. The group has no plans to develop new RTP profiles beyond >those listed above, but will consider rechartering to produce profile >level extensions if appropriate. Milestones: Oct >2003 Review DCCP including prototypes and API; feedback to DCCP WG Nov >2003 Initial draft requirements for ECRTP over MPLS; discuss with MPLS WG >Dec 2003 Submit UXP Payload Format for Proposed Standard Dec >2003 Submit ULP Payload Format for Proposed Standard Dec 2003 Submit >RTCP/SSM draft for Proposed Standard Dec 2003 Submit iLBC codec >specification for Experimental Dec 2003 Submit iLBC payload format for >Proposed Standard Jan 2004 Advance RTP specification and A/V profile to >Full Standard Mar 2004 Submit Framing of RTP for TCP and TLS for Proposed >Standard Mar 2004 Identify payload formats to classify as Historic Mar >2004 Finish requirements for ECRTP over MPLS; recharter for subsequent >work Jul 2004 Submit RTP/SAVPF profile for Proposed Standard Jul >2004 Begin update of SRTP profile for Draft Standard RFC Jul 2004 Begin >update of RTP/AVPF profile for Draft Standard RFC Aug 2004 Consider >update of RTP MIB Nov 2004 Collect SRTP implementation reports Nov >2004 Collect RTP/AVPF implementation reports Mar 2005 Submit SRTP for >Draft Standard Mar 2005 Submit RTP/AVPF for Draft Standard Michael A. Ramalho, Ph.D. Office email: mramalho@cisco.com Personal email: mar42@cornell.edu Office: +1.941.708.4650 Cell: +1.941.544.2844 _______________________________________________ Audio/Video Transport Working Group avt@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/avt
- [AVT] AVT Charter update Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [AVT] AVT Charter update Michael A. Ramalho
- Re: [AVT] AVT Charter update Colin Perkins