Re: [AVTCORE] [MMUSIC] draft-hsyang-avtcore-rtp-haptics-02: Needs to register "haptics" as an SDP <media>

[Christer Holmberg <[e-mail]>]

Hi,
 
>>The document making "haptics" a new top-level media type, coming out of the mediaman WG, has IETF
>>consensus (see https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-mediaman-haptics%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cchrister.holmberg%>>40ericsson.com%7C99eed9a7a0a34423d63008dc54359e43%7C92e84cebfbfd47abbe52080c6b87953f%7C0%7C0%7C638477836493194978%7CUnknown%>>7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=HO9dSL4UL6PTobV0xs%2F2Sr2s%2FnYTB3MJ4jfn%2BN0lEJ4%>>3D&reserved=0).
>> 
>>Since RTP payload types follow media types, I don't think that decision needs be revisited here for SDP specifically.
>> 
>> RFC 8866 (SDP) says:
>> 
>> “The set of media types is intended to be small and SHOULD NOT be extended except under rare circumstances.”
>>
>> Why is “haptics” considered a rare circumstance?
>
> It is one of the 5 senses,
>
> sight = media type video
> hearing = media type audio
> touch = media type haptics
> smell = (undefined)
> taste = (undefined)

Ok. Maybe that should be made more clear. That's not how I read the why-not-use-application justification in draft-ietf-mediaman-haptics.

I think it needs to be clearly justified why a new top-level type is accepted in this case, to avoid a slippery slope of new types.

Regards,

Christer






 
Now, draft-ietf-mediaman-haptics-05 does have some text on why “application” isn’t suitable. But, that text could be applied to many things, in my opinion.
 
Regards,
 
Christer
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
On Thu, Mar 28, 2024, 5:46 AM Christer Holmberg <mailto:[e-mail]> wrote:
Hi,

If this work is adopted I think there should be a discussion e.g., with MMUSIC whether the registration of a new media-type for this is the correct way, instead of using e.g., "application" (or even "data"). There should be some justification for using a new media type.

Regards,

Christer

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mmusic <mailto:[e-mail]> On Behalf Of Hyunsik Yang
> Sent: Wednesday, 13 March 2024 17.16
> To: Jonathan Lennox <mailto:[e-mail]>; IETF AVTCore WG
> <mailto:[e-mail]>; mailto:[e-mail]
> Cc: mailto:[e-mail]; Xavier De Foy <mailto:[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] draft-hsyang-avtcore-rtp-haptics-02: Needs to register
> "haptics" as an SDP <media>
> 
> [Some people who received this message don't often get email from
> hyunsik.yang=mailto:[e-mail]. Learn why this is important
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> 
> Hello Jonathan!
> 
> First of all, Thanks for reviewing our draft and sharing feedback.
> 
> After our presentation during the IETF 118 meeting, we realized that the
> 'haptics' Top-level Media Type
> (https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatat%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cchrister.holmberg%40ericsson.com%7C99eed9a7a0a34423d63008dc54359e43%7C92e84cebfbfd47abbe52080c6b87953f%7C0%7C0%7C638477836493209555%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=BHsZo00VD32GYNI%2BdkfjKE6iy48kEUgnoGrC7325NCk%3D&reserved=0
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fracker.ietf.org%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cchrister.holmberg%40ericsson.com%7C99eed9a7a0a34423d63008dc54359e43%7C92e84cebfbfd47abbe52080c6b87953f%7C0%7C0%7C638477836493219129%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ClcViaGJyrbTyaEJkIf9BamuhVE51%2Bc4jplmadG99Nc%3D&reserved=0%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-mediaman-
> haptics%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cchrister.holmberg%http://40ericsson.com/%7C4a91
> ee75e14f47a8b76608dc43708ea5%7C92e84cebfbfd47abbe52080c6b87953f
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> C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=d99fvcbNTS3Kqs8FkscBCPMD0Zy%2F6%2BdFZ%2B7i
> 4u1JB9w%3D&reserved=0) was actually registering the haptic top-level type
> and multiple haptic subtypes (including HMPG) with IANA. That is why we
> modified the draft to update the HMPG subtype registration with IANA (in
> section 6) and refer to the mediaman draft.
> 
> Please let us know if there are any issues with this approach. It's based on our
> best guess, but we may miss something.
> Thanks
> Best regards
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jonathan Lennox <mailto:[e-mail]>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2024 5:25 PM
> To: IETF AVTCore WG <mailto:[e-mail]>; draft-hsyang-avtcore-rtp-
> mailto:[e-mail]
> Cc: mailto:[e-mail]
> Subject: draft-hsyang-avtcore-rtp-haptics-02: Needs to register "haptics" as an
> SDP <media>
> 
> Hi - I’ve read over the rtp-haptics draft, and wanted to send in e-mail one
> comment I’ve made verbally in meetings (but probably not too coherently):
> 
> This draft also needs to register the SDP <media> value “haptics”, so
> “m=haptics” can be sent in SDP.
> 
> See RFC 8866 section 8.2 (specifically 8.2.2) for the details on how this is
> done; see also RFC 6466 which registered “image” as an SDP <media>
> (though that was done under the previous version of the process from RFC
> 4566, which was slightly different).
> 
> I don’t see any reason this registration can’t be done as part of the current
> draft, but I’ve cc’d mmusic to keep that group aware that this is happening.
> 
> --
> Jonathan Lennox (as an individual)
> 
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