Re: [AVTCORE] draft-hsyang-avtcore-rtp-haptics-02: Needs to register "haptics" as an SDP <media>

On Apr 3, 2024, at 3:42 AM, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg=40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
>  
> >The document making "haptics" a new top-level media type, coming out of the mediaman WG, has IETF
> >consensus (see https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mediaman-haptics/ <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-mediaman-haptics%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cchrister.holmberg%40ericsson.com%7C870c8c51c6b14d77c8a408dc4f3c58b1%7C92e84cebfbfd47abbe52080c6b87953f%7C0%7C0%7C638472367805840311%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=E0Kd3B9xCIkyhTi7DNfqNv4ZRH83j8x0OjEI7aKpzK0%3D&reserved=0>).
> > 
> >Since RTP payload types follow media types, I don't think that decision needs be revisited here for SDP specifically.
>  
> RFC 8866 (SDP) says:
>  
> “The set of media types is intended to be small and SHOULD NOT be extended except under rare circumstances.”
>  
> Why is “haptics” considered a rare circumstance?

It is one of the 5 senses,

sight = media type video
hearing = media type audio
touch = media type haptics
smell = (undefined)
taste = (undefined)

-d

>  
> Now, draft-ietf-mediaman-haptics-05 does have some text on why “application” isn’t suitable. But, that text could be applied to many things, in my opinion.
>  
> Regards,
>  
> Christer
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> 
> On Thu, Mar 28, 2024, 5:46 AM Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com <mailto:christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> If this work is adopted I think there should be a discussion e.g., with MMUSIC whether the registration of a new media-type for this is the correct way, instead of using e.g., "application" (or even "data"). There should be some justification for using a new media type.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Christer
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mmusic <mmusic-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:mmusic-bounces@ietf.org>> On Behalf Of Hyunsik Yang
> > Sent: Wednesday, 13 March 2024 17.16
> > To: Jonathan Lennox <jonathan.lennox@8x8.com <mailto:jonathan.lennox@8x8.com>>; IETF AVTCore WG
> > <avt@ietf.org <mailto:avt@ietf.org>>; draft-hsyang-avtcore-rtp-haptics@ietf.org <mailto:draft-hsyang-avtcore-rtp-haptics@ietf.org>
> > Cc: mmusic@ietf.org <mailto:mmusic@ietf.org>; Xavier De Foy <Xavier.DeFoy@InterDigital.com <mailto:Xavier.DeFoy@InterDigital.com>>
> > Subject: Re: [MMUSIC] draft-hsyang-avtcore-rtp-haptics-02: Needs to register
> > "haptics" as an SDP <media>
> > 
> > [Some people who received this message don't often get email from
> > hyunsik.yang=40interdigital.com@dmarc.ietf.org <mailto:40interdigital.com@dmarc.ietf.org>. Learn why this is important
> > at https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification ]
> > 
> > Hello Jonathan!
> > 
> > First of all, Thanks for reviewing our draft and sharing feedback.
> > 
> > After our presentation during the IETF 118 meeting, we realized that the
> > 'haptics' Top-level Media Type
> > (https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatat <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatat%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cchrister.holmberg%40ericsson.com%7C870c8c51c6b14d77c8a408dc4f3c58b1%7C92e84cebfbfd47abbe52080c6b87953f%7C0%7C0%7C638472367805852000%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=5G4BS2MFWD8iX8gMBeRoUbZh57zebrT4Oq0VuEjdAFk%3D&reserved=0>
> > racker.ietf.org <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fracker.ietf.org%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cchrister.holmberg%40ericsson.com%7C870c8c51c6b14d77c8a408dc4f3c58b1%7C92e84cebfbfd47abbe52080c6b87953f%7C0%7C0%7C638472367805860476%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=DxKuktgS4khTs3kDSPx8kpUcAgcCxeEDkQg%2BgWBXDN0%3D&reserved=0>%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-mediaman-
> > haptics%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cchrister.holmberg%40ericsson.com <http://40ericsson.com/>%7C4a91
> > ee75e14f47a8b76608dc43708ea5%7C92e84cebfbfd47abbe52080c6b87953f
> > %7C0%7C0%7C638459397909128782%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJW
> > IjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7
> > C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=d99fvcbNTS3Kqs8FkscBCPMD0Zy%2F6%2BdFZ%2B7i
> > 4u1JB9w%3D&reserved=0) was actually registering the haptic top-level type
> > and multiple haptic subtypes (including HMPG) with IANA. That is why we
> > modified the draft to update the HMPG subtype registration with IANA (in
> > section 6) and refer to the mediaman draft.
> > 
> > Please let us know if there are any issues with this approach. It's based on our
> > best guess, but we may miss something.
> > Thanks
> > Best regards
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jonathan Lennox <jonathan.lennox@8x8.com <mailto:jonathan.lennox@8x8.com>>
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2024 5:25 PM
> > To: IETF AVTCore WG <avt@ietf.org <mailto:avt@ietf.org>>; draft-hsyang-avtcore-rtp-
> > haptics@ietf.org <mailto:haptics@ietf.org>
> > Cc: mmusic@ietf.org <mailto:mmusic@ietf.org>
> > Subject: draft-hsyang-avtcore-rtp-haptics-02: Needs to register "haptics" as an
> > SDP <media>
> > 
> > Hi - I’ve read over the rtp-haptics draft, and wanted to send in e-mail one
> > comment I’ve made verbally in meetings (but probably not too coherently):
> > 
> > This draft also needs to register the SDP <media> value “haptics”, so
> > “m=haptics” can be sent in SDP.
> > 
> > See RFC 8866 section 8.2 (specifically 8.2.2) for the details on how this is
> > done; see also RFC 6466 which registered “image” as an SDP <media>
> > (though that was done under the previous version of the process from RFC
> > 4566, which was slightly different).
> > 
> > I don’t see any reason this registration can’t be done as part of the current
> > draft, but I’ve cc’d mmusic to keep that group aware that this is happening.
> > 
> > --
> > Jonathan Lennox (as an individual)
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > mmusic mailing list
> > mmusic@ietf.org <mailto:mmusic@ietf.org>
> > https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.i <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.i%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cchrister.holmberg%40ericsson.com%7C870c8c51c6b14d77c8a408dc4f3c58b1%7C92e84cebfbfd47abbe52080c6b87953f%7C0%7C0%7C638472367805868864%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ifKryyUs%2FO0IT2crBfhWxaVHRjSo8K4YhGRFZT1FZ7U%3D&reserved=0>
> > etf.org <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fetf.org%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cchrister.holmberg%40ericsson.com%7C870c8c51c6b14d77c8a408dc4f3c58b1%7C92e84cebfbfd47abbe52080c6b87953f%7C0%7C0%7C638472367805876794%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=5zoFjrJ1BuYPupKCflpsziYpfstiVtlodlr%2BxfRYxik%3D&reserved=0>%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fmmusic&data=05%7C02%7Cchrister.holm
> > berg%40ericsson.com <http://40ericsson.com/>%7C4a91ee75e14f47a8b76608dc43708ea5%7C92e84c
> > ebfbfd47abbe52080c6b87953f%7C0%7C0%7C638459397909152140%7CUnk
> > nown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6I
> > k1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=IpQGbWcbFncI%2Biqp
> > ZRlgGMdHp2zKDyKTeS7HPiuSrAs%3D&reserved=0
> _______________________________________________
> Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance
> avt@ietf.org <mailto:avt@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/avt