Re: [BEHAVE] [Fwd: Last Call: draft-azinger-additional-private-ipv4-space-issues (Additional Private IPv4 Space) to INFORMATIONAL RFC]
Cameron Byrne <cb.list6@gmail.com> Mon, 26 July 2010 16:58 UTC
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Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 09:58:58 -0700
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From: Cameron Byrne <cb.list6@gmail.com>
To: Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net>
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Cc: Shin Miyakawa <miyakawa@nttv6.jp>, Behave WG <behave@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [BEHAVE] [Fwd: Last Call: draft-azinger-additional-private-ipv4-space-issues (Additional Private IPv4 Space) to INFORMATIONAL RFC]
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I am against the use of existing public space being defined as private on the following grounds. 1. You cannot legitimately assign a block of space that is big enough to solve the problem of large networks. I use several /8 bogon ranges for customers and Verizon Wireless said at the Google IPv6 conference that they have 40 instances of 10.0.0.0/8 in their network. If the purpose of assigning new private space is to stem this behavior, the size of the new private range should probably be /6 or better ... which i do not believe is rational or achievable. 2. The public IPv4 addresses are needed in the public Internet, especially for developing nations that are bringing people on-line to the Internet at a very brisk pace. 3. It's all about business. We should avoiding IPv6 should not be free. I see 4 possibilities to deal with today's issue: a. BOGONs. Not pretty, but they work for users and it does not block services like IMS. There is also an on-going operational cost of getting off space (rotating your bogons) as it is assigned to RIRs or announced on the Internet. Been there, done that, it cost money, but once again it works and there is a business case that accounts for that risk and work. b. n * 10.0.0.0/8, in the USA, AT&T and Verizon wireless do this many times throughout the country. Yes, IMS is held back because of it, SIP B2BUA can used but they cost money, but once again the risks and complexity are accounted for. c. 240/4. IMHO, if something must be done for large private networks that need IPv4, this it. This way the large private network must fully realize the cost of "operationalizing" the space without taking from the public pool. d. IPv6-only networks with NAT64 / DNS64. This option best encourages the use of IPv6 and really gets network and application designers focused on the end-game, not wallowing in some middle-state of CGN / LSN / and endless NAT444. Allocating un-tainted public IPv4 addresses to large networks will slow the adoption of IPv6. If these large networks must have new space, they must run the business case that assumes the risk of duplicate internal address (n* 10/8), duplicate external addresses (bogon), operationalizing class E, or really going IPv6 (which can be option d or dual-stack with a,b, or c). IMHO, there should not be "free" option for avoiding IPv6. Regards, Cameron On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 8:32 AM, Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net> wrote: > > In today's session we talked about OPS area making a recommendation against shared ISP addressing. I didn't remember if there was a document. There is, it just came out for Last Call review now. Please comment. > > -------- Alkuperäinen viesti / Orig.Msg. -------- > Aihe: Last Call: draft-azinger-additional-private-ipv4-space-issues (Additional Private IPv4 Space) to INFORMATIONAL RFC > Päiväys: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 06:33:59 -0700 (PDT) > Lähettäjä: The IESG <iesg-secretary@ietf.org> > Vastausosoite: ietf@ietf.org > Vastaanottaja: IETF-Announce <ietf-announce@ietf.org> > > The IESG has received a request from an individual submitter to consider > the following document: > > - 'Additional Private IPv4 Space Issues ' > <draft-azinger-additional-private-ipv4-space-issues-04.txt> as INFORMATIONAL RFC > > The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits > final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the > ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2010-08-23. Exceptionally, > comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please > retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. > > The file can be obtained via > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-azinger-additional-private-ipv4-space-issues-04.txt > > > IESG discussion can be tracked via > https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=view_id&dTag=19011&rfc_flag=0 > > _______________________________________________ > IETF-Announce mailing list > IETF-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce > > > _______________________________________________ > Behave mailing list > Behave@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/behave >
- [BEHAVE] [Fwd: Last Call: draft-azinger-additiona… Jari Arkko
- Re: [BEHAVE] [Fwd: Last Call: draft-azinger-addit… Cameron Byrne
- Re: [BEHAVE] [Fwd: Last Call: draft-azinger-addit… Mark Andrews
- Re: [BEHAVE] [Fwd: Last Call: draft-azinger-addit… Philip Matthews
- Re: [BEHAVE] [Fwd: Last Call: draft-azinger-addit… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [BEHAVE] [Fwd: Last Call: draft-azinger-addit… Philip Matthews
- Re: [BEHAVE] [Fwd: Last Call: draft-azinger-addit… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [BEHAVE] [Fwd: Last Call: draft-azinger-addit… Joel Jaeggli
- Re: [BEHAVE] [Fwd: Last Call: draft-azinger-addit… Victor Kuarsingh
- Re: [BEHAVE] [Fwd: Last Call: draft-azinger-addit… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [BEHAVE] [Fwd: Last Call: draft-azinger-addit… Joel Jaeggli