Re: [BEHAVE] [shara] Follow up on Layer2-Aware NAT (draft-miles-behave-l2nat-00)
<pierre.levis@orange-ftgroup.com> Thu, 02 April 2009 14:57 UTC
Return-Path: <pierre.levis@orange-ftgroup.com>
X-Original-To: behave@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: behave@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4CB43A697B; Thu, 2 Apr 2009 07:57:35 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -3.048
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.048 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.201, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7tKWuZsqJdrK; Thu, 2 Apr 2009 07:57:35 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from p-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com (p-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com [195.101.245.16]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6372B3A686A; Thu, 2 Apr 2009 07:57:34 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ftrdmel1.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.192.128.40]) by ftrdsmtp2.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 2 Apr 2009 16:58:36 +0200
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 16:58:33 +0200
Message-ID: <D109C8C97C15294495117745780657AE0B8E20F7@ftrdmel1>
In-Reply-To: <986DCE2E44129444B6435ABE8C9E424D02F7E95D@SGSINSMBS02.ad4.ad.alcatel.com>
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
Thread-Topic: [shara] Follow up on Layer2-Aware NAT (draft-miles-behave-l2nat-00)
Thread-Index: AcmgdlhcsqF9XOaRSFmUv5LfTG7d5QAAEU/wA2dPQ2AASTlpgAEaJr3w
References: <986DCE2E44129444B6435ABE8C9E424D02D5CE0A@SGSINSMBS02.ad4.ad.alcatel.com> <D109C8C97C15294495117745780657AE0B7FD6FE@ftrdmel1> <986DCE2E44129444B6435ABE8C9E424D02F7E95D@SGSINSMBS02.ad4.ad.alcatel.com>
From: pierre.levis@orange-ftgroup.com
To: David.Miles@alcatel-lucent.com.au, behave@ietf.org, shara@ietf.org
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Apr 2009 14:58:36.0302 (UTC) FILETIME=[7FDD4AE0:01C9B3A3]
Subject: Re: [BEHAVE] [shara] Follow up on Layer2-Aware NAT (draft-miles-behave-l2nat-00)
X-BeenThere: behave@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: mailing list of BEHAVE IETF WG <behave.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/behave>, <mailto:behave-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/behave>
List-Post: <mailto:behave@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:behave-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/behave>, <mailto:behave-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 14:57:35 -0000
Hi David, I'm not very convinced on the interest to modelize a PRR as a NAPT function that would not do any translation. For me it makes the PRR appear as a kind of degenerated NAT, when one of its main value is to get rid of a CGN function. That said, I agree there is an interest to consider solutions that integrate both PRR and CGN functions. Pierre -----Message d'origine----- De : MILES DAVID [mailto:David.Miles@alcatel-lucent.com.au] Envoyé : samedi 28 mars 2009 01:27 À : LEVIS Pierre RD-CORE-CAE; behave@ietf.org; shara@ietf.org Objet : RE: [shara] Follow up on Layer2-Aware NAT (draft-miles-behave-l2nat-00) Pierre, Thanks for the support. The presentation of draft-nishitani-cgn-01 outlined a good way forward - here the Network Model was separated from the core NAT Function. I think a L2-Aware NAT best belongs in a core document like this. In this way L2-Aware NAT could make up an optional component of the core NAT Function (in the way it describes a Virtual NAT [tables] facility). On top of this a variety of network models could be created and documented - these could even come from other working groups (such as Softwires).I believe a core NAT function (regardless of whether we describe IPv4 or IPv6) fits well in BEHAVE. Applying the mechanisms in L2-Aware NAT to PRR makes a lot of sense as well - I'm wondering if port-range solutions could be described (perhaps poorly) as similar to a NAPT mapping function (outside-ip/port to inside-ip/port) however in the case of PRR, the pairs are the same/common - in effect a address/port translation does not occur. What do you think of attempting to describe the PRR function like this? If agreeable I would like to invite the authors of PRR/A+P and CGN drafts to work within the bounds of a new draft that describes a core NAT function (without drawing reference to size or scale) - introducing elements of core NAT function (CGN/LSN) virtual NAPT tables (L2-Aware NAT), and mappings tables where translation is not applied (PRR). Best Regards, -David -----Original Message----- From: shara-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:shara-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of pierre.levis@orange-ftgroup.com Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 6:17 AM To: behave@ietf.org; shara@ietf.org Subject: [shara] Follow up on Layer2-Aware NAT (draft-miles-behave-l2nat-00) The comment I had on the mike during behave session 2: This kind of work is very valuable, it is worth not only for CGN but also for Port Ranges solutions and for all IPv4 shortage solutions. As we presented it in the shara BoF all solutions basically: 1) Put a dedicated function in an ISP Box (CGN, PRR, whatever) 2) Use some sort of transport mechanism (tunneling, layer 2, whatever) between customers and ISPBox, 3) Are confronted with the same issues: how to force a route from customers to ISPBox, how to route back from ISPBox to relevant customer, how to identify the customer. This would advocate for seeing all work related to IPv4 shared addresses host in the same place, under the same ombrella. Regards Pierre _______________________________________________ shara mailing list shara@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/shara
- [BEHAVE] FW: Layer2-Aware NAT (draft-miles-behave… MILES DAVID
- Re: [BEHAVE] [shara] Layer2-Aware NAT (draft-mile… pierre.levis
- [BEHAVE] Follow up on Layer2-Aware NAT (draft-mil… pierre.levis
- Re: [BEHAVE] [shara] Follow up on Layer2-Aware NA… MILES DAVID
- Re: [BEHAVE] [shara] Follow up on Layer2-Aware NA… Randy Bush
- Re: [BEHAVE] [shara] Follow up on Layer2-Aware NA… Gabor Bajko
- Re: [BEHAVE] [shara] Follow up on Layer2-Aware NA… MILES DAVID
- Re: [BEHAVE] [shara] Follow up on Layer2-Aware NA… pierre.levis