Draft minutes from Seoul

["Adrian Farrel" <[e-mail]>]

Very many thanks to Eric Gray for doing the hard work and
for supplying an excellent set of minutes.

There are a couple of gaps. Please let me know what you said (or want you want recorded
:-).

Comments as soon as possible, please.

Thanks,
Adrian

Common Control and Measurement Plane WG (ccamp)

THURSDAY, March 4 at 0900-1130
===============================

CHAIRS: Kireeti Kompella <[e-mail]>
        Adrian Farrel <[e-mail]>

AGENDA:

===
Group Admin
---
Chairs
  Admin - Nothing much to say (in English anyway)
        - In Korean, however, the following was said:
          "Jigeumbuteo CCAMP meetingeul sijakhagesumnida".

  Agenda bash (5 mins) - No changes
  Status of WG drafts and milestones
    Adrian's slides showed that we do have some draft
    congestion in the WG.
    - RFC editor queue
    - status of IANA for SONET/SDH
      Kireeti talked about an issue with SONET/SDH IANA
      assignments
    - need a means to get early assignments.
      There is WIP to accomplish this, and it is moving
      ahead.
    - future allocation of "experimental" values

Liaisons
---
Marco Carugi talked about work in SG-13 (SG13 liaison).
  He covered topics, new study areas, timescales, objectives
  and status. They are also looking for people interested in
  doing work in these areas.

  An L1 VPN questionnaire and framework draft were attached
  to the liaison.

  Tomonori Takeda talked about the technical issues and
  details of the work.

  Monique Morrow had a couple of clarification for Marco -
  When will the consent portion of the work be done in the
  ITU?

    Marco said that the different pieces of work were
    progressing at different speeds. Some material is
    already embodied in recommendations. The next SG13
    meetings are in June and September.

  Dimitri Papadimitriou asked if the liaison could include
  a summarization of the purpose and intent of the liaison.

    Kireeti answered. If CCAMP's rechartering this month
    results in the addition of L1VPNs to the charter, then
    a Liaison response from the IETF will include this
    information, plus a request for a cooperative effort,
    preferably along the lines of the ASON routing work,
    wherein the ITU-T defines the requirements and the IETF
    does the protocol extensions.

  Alex Zinin said that we will have to make a decision at
  some point as to whether or not we want to do this work
  here.

  Someone from NTT raised a point that was not captured in
  the minutes.

  Deborah Brungard said that there is work and some synergy
  and that we should continue to work on this.

    Monique Morrow agrees that we should work on that.

    Marco added some comments that were not captured in the
    minutes.

    Malcolm Betts said he also feels that we should do this.

  Adrian took a quick poll and it seems as if nobody is
  against doing this work.

  Kireeti reminded people to continue this discussion on
  the list.

---
Lyndon Ong talked about work in SG-15 (3 liaisons).

  Liaisons were on ASON routing requirements, response to
  comments on Q14 for G.7713.2 and comments on the CCAMP
  ASON signaling requirements draft.

  Lyndon spent much of the time on the details of response
  to comments on Q14. It seems that some of the differences
  in architectural models revolve around "end-to-end" and
  "call segment" operating models.

  Kireeti asked for the reply by date.

    Lyndon did not have that.

    Steve Trowbridge said that the meeting starts on April
    19th

  Dimitri had a question on the deadline. Isn't there a
  similar deadline on (G.7713).

    Lyndon said that he had not gone into that. He gave a
    reason, but this was not captured in the minutes.

  Deborah said that the liaison for 7713.2 does not say any
  thing about convergence.

    Lyndon said that they are still looking for a "meeting
    of the minds".

  Deborah said that there is an issue with G.7713.2 because
  of compatibility.

    Lyndon said that yes there has been a lot of discussion
    of compatibility questions and requirements.

  Kireeti said that we should not discuss this here.

  Steve Trowbridge added some comments that were not
  captured in the minutes.

  Kireeti asked the WG to take this discussion to the list
  and try to keep that discussion on a productive basis.

  Adrian said that he wanted to recognize the efforts of
  the ITU folks in this work.

===
ASON Requirements and Solutions
---
Dimitri Papadimitriou presented status of ASON Signaling
Requirements (draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ason-reqts-05.txt.

  The requirements were driven by last years liaison from
  the ITU.

  After this meeting, Dimitri would like to re-spin the
  draft and have a two week last call.

  Lyndon said he wants to capture the requirement - whether
  or not we will work on it here.

  Kireeti said that we first need to understand importance
  of this and then we can look to the ADs for guidance on
  handling this.  He also said that we should take some time
  to work out what we want to say to the ITU when we include
  the current draft.

---
Dimitri Papadimitriou gave status ASON Signaling Solutions
(draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-rsvp-te-ason-01.txt) status.

  He would like feedback on whether or not the current draft
  deals correctly with the session attribute.

  His objective at this point is to try to have last call
  on this

  Lyndon suggested that we might remove the comparison with
  G.7713 from the draft.

    Adrian asked if this meant that the interworking draft
    for RFC3473/4 interworking was now obsolete.

      Lyndon said maybe, if interworking is removed as a
      requirement.

---
Lou Berger talked about Egress Control -
draft-berger-gmpls-egress-control-01.txt -

  Original egress label control became explicit label
  control. This draft attempts to capture the original
  intent.

  He wants to know if the WG feels that this is ready to
  be a BCP and what the chairs think the next steps should
  be.

  Lou re-iterated that the purpose and scope of the draft
  is for clarification. He does not see any value in adding
  to this intent or combining it with other work.

  Adrian then took a poll and nobody objected to take this
  on as a WG item (more than a third were in favor).

---
Lyndon Ong went over status on ASON Routing Requirements -
draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ason-routing-reqts-02.txt

  He includes in his presentation his conclusions as to what
  there is agreement that stuff is missing and areas in which
  there is still contention.

  Kireeti asked Lyndon to more formally open this discussion
  on the mailing list.

  Vishal Sharma said that he supports this.

  Kireeti said he would like - after checking with the AD -
  that we should take this work to the IS-IS and OSPF WGs.

    Alex Zinin said this is a good idea.

===
Tunnel Trace
---
Ron Bonica presented status on draft-bonica-tunproto-05.txt

  The solution is very similar to Trace-Route but does not
  require that each node in a tunnel supports TTL decrement.

  He gave a few examples as to how the idea in the draft
  will work in a few scenarios.

  There are a couple of outstanding issues:
  - trace requires a route to tunnel head end
  - integration with LSP ping.

  He would like to get the draft accepted as a WG draft.

  Yakov asked what SPs use today for tunnel tracing.

    Ron said that in some case people can use ICMP for MPLS.

  Yakov then asked if we could get a BCP on what people are
  doing.

    Ron asked if he should resubmit his earlier draft on
    this.

      Kireeti said that we do not want to decide that now.

===
Protection and Restoration
---
Dimitri Papadimitriou presented status on the work of the
Protection and Restoration Team - specifically:
1) draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-recovery-analysis-02.txt
2) draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-recovery-functional-01.txt
3) draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-recovery-terminology-03.txt
4) draft-lang-ccamp-gmpls-recovery-e2e-signaling-02.txt

  He gave estimates on the timing for each of the above
  drafts (estimated completion dates).

  He outlined the changes to the e2e signaling ID (draft 4,
  above).

  He encouraged the WG to really read the documents and
  comment.

  Kireeti polled for consensus on the following:

    a) Analysis - last call? Some support, no objection
    b) Functional - last call? Some support, no objection
    c) Terminology - last call? Some support, no objection
    d) e2e Signaling - WG document? Some support, no object

  People at the microphone were asked to take their
  questions to the list.

---
Lou Berger presented an overview of work on Segment
Recovery - draft-berger-ccamp-gmpls-segment-recovery-00.txt

  He also talked about what still needs to be done (next
  steps), including more usage scenarios, more explanatory
  text and see if the WG will adopt this work.

  Arthi Ayyangar asked if the association object is required
  even if we are only doing segment recovery (as opposed to
  e2e).  She had follow up questions that Kireeti asked her
  to take to the list.

  Adrian polled for support of accepting this as a WG draft.
  There was moderate support and no objection.

===
Inter-Area/AS
---
Arthi Ayyangar talked about the status of the merged draft
on Inter-area/AS signaling -
draft-vasseur-ccamp-inter-area-as-te-00.txt

  The draft currently represents a full merge - work is still
  required to strip out redundant and unneeded text.

  She said that the authors encourage people to come forward
  with their comments.  She would also like to see if there
  is interest in this work becoming a WG document.

  Vishal Sharma said that he supports separating some of the
  path computation mechanisms from the rest of the document
  and removal of applicability text.

  Dimitri agreed on the subject of separating the document
  and made some suggestions for clarification of the draft.

    Arthi asked that Dimitri take his specific comments to
    the list.

  Kireeti said that he agrees that the document needs to be
  split - one as a signaling and another (informational) to
  provide examples for path computation. He also said that
  we need a separate applicability document.

---
Vishal Sharma talked about work on Inter-area path
protection
draft-dachille-inter-area-path-protection-00.txt

  He provided a brief overview of how it works, and showed
  how it relates to other work in progress. He also listed
  the next steps.

  Zafar Ali asked how this would work if there is a failure
  at the time during which the backup path is being setup.

    Zafar and Vishal chatted for a while and then Kireeti
    asked them to take the discussion to the list.

  Dimitri asked why the document is so focused on
  optimization.

  Kireeti asked that further discussion on this should be
  taken to the list.

  Also, he said that Dimitri had a good point - we need to
  define criteria on which any optimization is based.

===
Control Pane Resilience, Hello Protocol and Graceful Restart
---
Young Hwa Kim gave a presentation on Requirements for the
Resilience of Control Plane in GMPLS -
draft-kim-ccamp-cpr-reqts-00.txt

  He described the reasons why control plane resilience is
  needed.

  Zafar asked how control plane resilience is different from
  anything else in IP.

  Steve Trowbridge said that their is also some work in this
  area in the ITU and he would try to get this in as a
  liaison as soon as possible.

  Kireeti said that this is an important discussion and
  there are a lot of things to do. Specific topics should be
  raised on the list when appropriate.

---
Lou Berger went over Extensions to GMPLS RSVP Graceful
Restart
draft-aruns-ccamp-rsvp-restart-ext-00

  He emphasized that egress restart is already covered in
  RFC3473 and this work has no effect on that functionality.
  He gave a brief overview and listed open issues.

  Next steps include merging with other restart drafts and
  seeing if this work can become a WG draft.

  Arthi said that she feels that the document focuses too
  much on the ERO. She feels that the draft should address
  other issues and concerns with the mechanism.

    Lou asked if she would like to contribute text.

  The chairs then asked for other discussion to go to the
  list.

---
Zafar Ali talked about Extensions to GMPLS RSVP Graceful
Restart
draft-rahman-ccamp-rsvp-restart-extensions-00.txt

  Kireeti said that he appreciated the honesty of the
  authors in acknowledging other work.

  Nurit Sprecher asked about the relationship to FRR and
  similar issues.

    Adrian agreed that these were important issues and had
    been raised on the list in recent days. He asked the
    authors to make sure that they cover the points in the
    draft.

---
Zafar then covered modifications to Hello procedures
1) draft-ali-ccamp-rsvp-node-id-based-hello-00.txt
2) draft-ali-ccamp-rsvp-hello-gr-admin-00.txt

  He wants to go forward with draft 1 above.

  Adrian polled and there was some interest and no strong
  objection.

  Kireeti said that this work cannot be informational if
  it has - or proposes - changes to a standard.

  Zafar also wants draft 2 to be a WG document.

  Kireeti said that we need to take this to the list, but
  Zafar also needs to socialize the work he is doing so that
  people may decide whether or not this is work we want to
  do.

===
Everything Else
---
Emmanuel Dotaro gave status of Multi-region protection -
draft-vigoureux-shiomoto-ccamp-gmpls-mrn-04.txt

  He briefly covered changes since previous versions.

  He proposes that we may need to make changes to the
  charter to include all of this work.

  Adrian suggested that the authors need to get more people
  involved in this important work and revisit this later.

---
Jean-Louis Le Roux - Advertizing TE Capabilities in IGPs
draft-vasseur-ccamp-isis-te-caps-00.txt

  He would like to have this accepted as a WG document.

  Adrian asked to hold off on this until after the OSPF talk
  below.

---
Seisho Yasukawa
draft-vasseur-ccamp-ospf-te-caps-00.txt

  He would like to have this accepted as a WG document.

  Regarding both drafts, Kireeti is not sure that this work
  belongs in this WG. The decision is driven by the
  generality of its applicability. If we do take it on, their
  needs to be a functional specification (independent of IGP)
  as well.

  He asked that further discussion be taken to the list.

---
The Following presentations were postponed as we ran out
of time. Adrian made a couple of brief comments as follows:
  ---
  Zafar Ali - Explicit Resource Control and Tracking
  draft-zamfir-explicit-resource-control-bundle-03.txt

    This work concerns identification of component links in
    EROs and RROs.

    A small group is currently examining other issues
    concerning identification of component links in all
    aspects of GMPLS. A draft is expected soon. Please mail
    Adrian or the list, if you want to be involved in this
    work.

  ---
  Lou Berger - Alarm Reporting
  draft-berger-ccamp-gmpls-alarm-spec-01.txt

    This draft is stable and complete in the view of the
    authors.

    A quick poll showed some support for this being a WG
    document, and no opposition. This will be taken to the
    list.