[Cellar] virtual interim meeting: 2023-04-25 -- DRAFT AGENDA

[Michael Richardson <[e-mail]>]

# CELLAR -- DRAFT AGENDA for Virtual Interim Meeting

| Date |Time | Local Times |
|:------:|:-----------:|:------|
|2023-04-25 21:00 Amsterdam |[Time Converter](https://savvytime.com/converter/netherlands-amsterdam-to-utc-ny-new-york-city-ca-san-francisco/jun-22-2021/9pm)|
| **Note** | Meeting time is anchored to Amsterdam |

## Administrivia

### INFO:
    https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-interim-2023-cellar-04-cellar
    https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/tree/master/interim-2023-04
    **Note that we're now pointing to the Github repo for chair notes here**

### MEETING INFO and WEB CONFERENCE:

info: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2023-cellar-04/session/cellar
    https://meetings.conf.meetecho.com/interim/?short=d591c30a-d20a-407b-81d2-00f4529d4cc5

note that chat is now Zulip:
    https://zulip.ietf.org/login/#narrow/stream/cellar
but is accessible via meetecho interface.

#### Shared HedgeDoc for notetaking

    Now using the Datatracker assigned notepad at:
    https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-interim-2023-cellar-04-cellar

* Note that if you log in to the IETF datatracker, you'll be able to edit/clarify/correct these notes, add your name to attendee  lists, etc.

* Please ask Michael or Spencer if you have questions.

#### 2023 virtual interim meeting dates

 * Please note our 2023 dates listed at https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/cellar/meetings/

## Agenda Items

### Note Well:
    https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well/
    Please be KIND to each other.

#### Roll call

  Attendees
   *

#### Accept draft minutes from 2023-04-04

   *

###  WG status update

| Draft | State | Date Posted | Plans
|:------|:------|:------------|:------
| draft-ietf-cellar-chapter-codecs-02   | ID Exists | 2022-12-04  |
| draft-ietf-cellar-codec-10            | ID Exists | 2022-12-04  |
| draft-ietf-cellar-control-02          | ID Exists | 2022-12-04  |
| draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-v4-20          | ID Exists | 2022-12-05  |
| draft-ietf-cellar-flac-08             | Submitted to IESG for Publication| 2023-04-03  |
| draft-ietf-cellar-matroska-16         | Waiting for Writeup::AD Followup | 2023-04-01 | Last Call ended 2023-02-28
| draft-ietf-cellar-tags-10             | ID Exists | 2022-12-04

###  Milestone review:

   * was: IESG Balloting is next step for Matroska
   * was: AD Evaluation is next step for FLAC

### Matroska issues - Discussion of Last Call comments on the call.

   * Any issues from WGLC, IETF Last Call and random Internet reviews?

### FLAC issues - Discussion on the call

   * document revision?

### FFV1 v4 issues - Discussion on the call

   *

## AOB?

   *


# Previous Minutes - CELLAR -- DRAFT MINUTES from Virtual Interim Meeting

| Date |Time | Local Times |
|:------:|:-----------:|:------|
|2023-04-04 21:00 Amsterdam |[Time Converter](https://savvytime.com/converter/netherlands-amsterdam-to-utc-ny-new-york-city-ca-san-francisco/jun-22-2021/9pm)|
| **Note** | Meeting time is anchored to Amsterdam |

## Administrivia

### INFO:
    https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-interim-2023-cellar-03-cellar
    https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/tree/master/interim-2023-03
    **Note that we're now pointing to the Github repo for chair notes here**

### MEETING INFO and WEB CONFERENCE:

info: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2023-cellar-03/session/cellar
    https://meetings.conf.meetecho.com/interim/?short=c47aaec5-cac1-4f36-b0de-0fda91c8d4e6

note that chat is now Zulip:
    https://zulip.ietf.org/login/#narrow/stream/cellar
but is accessible via meetecho interface.

#### Shared HedgeDoc for notetaking

    Now using the Datatracker assigned notepad at:
    https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-interim-2023-cellar-03-cellar

* Note that if you log in to the IETF datatracker, you'll be able to edit/clarify/correct these notes, add your name to attendee  lists, etc.

* Please ask Michael or Spencer if you have questions.

#### 2023 virtual interim meeting dates

 * Please note our 2023 dates listed at https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/cellar/meetings/

## Agenda Items

### Note Well:
    https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well/
    Please be KIND to each other.

#### Roll call

  Attendees
   * Spencer Dawkins
   * Michael Richardson
   * Martijn van Beurden
   * Steve Lhomme
   * Martin Below
   * Michael Niedermayer
   * Dave Rice

#### Accept draft minutes from 2023-02-28

   * Accepted without objection

###  WG status update

| Draft | State | Date Posted | Plans
|:------|:------|:------------|:------
| draft-ietf-cellar-chapter-codecs-02   | ID Exists | 2022-12-04  |
| draft-ietf-cellar-codec-10            | ID Exists | 2022-12-04  |
| draft-ietf-cellar-control-02          | ID Exists | 2022-12-04  |
| draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-v4-20          | ID Exists | 2022-12-05  |
| draft-ietf-cellar-flac-08             | Waiting for WG Chair Go-Ahead  | 2023-04-03  |
| draft-ietf-cellar-matroska-16         | Waiting for Writeup::AD Followup | 2023-04-01 | Last Call ended 2023-02-28
| draft-ietf-cellar-tags-10             | ID Exists | 2022-12-04

###  Milestone review:

   * IESG Balloting is next step for Matroska
   * AD Evaluation is next step for FLAC

### Matroska issues - Discussion of Last Call comments on the call.

   * Any issues from WGLC, IETF Last Call and random Internet reviews?
   * We have received a General Area Review Team review, and replied to it
   * (Spencer notes that the Security Directorate review is overdue)
   * Should we start a new document for version 5? We can do that, but we should expect to focus on review and ballot comments during IESG Review
   * What about EMBLv2? We can start that, because EBMLv1 has been published as an RFC, and Matroska v5 will rely on rational number support in EBMLv2

### FLAC issues - Discussion on the call

   * Document was revised on 2023-04-04
   * Spencer thinks -08 is Just Fine, as far as his previous comments go
   * We've had some discussion on the mailing list - have we converged? Yes
   * Does anyone need to look at -08 diffs? No one asked for this on the call, and Martijn leaves PRs open for a couple of weeks before merging and closing.
   * Next step on this - **Spencer will post formal shepherd write-up and Request Publication**

### FFV1 v4 issues - Discussion on the call

   * Dave: last meeting, I promised to send an email nudge to the working group but I hadn't done that yet. for v4 I think we just need to stir up some discussion
   * The wish list is in issue tracker: https://github.com/FFmpeg/FFV1/issues
   * We will go through the issues and prioritize them in GitHub.
   * **Dave will send a wakeup call on the mailing list**.

### RFC Errata versus GitHub Issues?

   * The issue is that GitHub documents have both errata as well as new features and other changes for which there might not be consensus
   * RFCs don't change, but we can either post issues and changes in GitHub, and batch these changes up to go through an IETF publication process at some point, or rely on the RFC Errata system
   * We prefer to rely on GitHub, but we should file errata for technical errors
   * Proposal is to branch off on publication, so github has the formal fixes on the rfcxyz branch, and the master is work in progress
   * The README.ml file in each repository for a specification that has been published as an RFC should explain where to look for (1) the published RFC, (2) the corrected RFC, if "Verified" errata exist, and (3) the next version of the RFC, including changes that would not have IETF consensus (yet), if work is underway on a revision.
   * Matroska's github has only source code that is hard to read for visitors, so maybe work with releases
   * **We will start with EBML, which is our only published RFC so far, and get that repo set up the way we think all of our repos should be set up.**
   * We will revisit this at our next meeting.

## Any Other Business

   * Dave Rice noted that this year's No Time To Wait overlaps IETF 118 in Prague, and is also in Prague - this is a great opportunity for overlapping
   * Spencer will talk about the post-WGLC publication process at a future meeting
   * Next meeting is **2023-04-25**

# Previous Minutes - CELLAR -- DRAFT MINUTES from Virtual Interim Meeting

| Date |Time | Local Times |
|:------:|:-----------:|:------|
|2023-02-28 21:00 Amsterdam |[Time Converter](https://savvytime.com/converter/netherlands-amsterdam-to-utc-ny-new-york-city-ca-san-francisco/jun-22-2021/9pm)|
| **Note** | Meeting time is anchored to Amsterdam |

## Administrivia

### INFO:
   https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/tree/master/interim-2023-02
   **Note that we're now pointing to the Github repo for chair notes here**

### MEETING INFO and WEB CONFERENCE:

info: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2023-cellar-02/session/cellar
      https://meetings.conf.meetecho.com/interim/?short=8a8f2003-11c7-4564-88fe-46b1c0c93049

note that chat is now Zulip:
https://zulip.ietf.org/login/#narrow/stream/cellar

but is accessible via meetecho interface.

#### Shared HedgeDoc for notetaking

    Now using the Datatracker assigned notepad at:
    https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-interim-2023-cellar-02-cellar

* Note that if you log in to the IETF datatracker, you'll be able to edit/clarify/correct these notes, add your name to attendee  lists, etc.

* Please ask Michael or Spencer if you have questions.

#### 2023 virtual interim meeting dates

 * Please note our 2023 dates listed at https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/cellar/meetings/

## Agenda Items

### Note Well:
    https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well/
    Please be KIND to each other.

#### Roll call

  Attendees
   * Spencer Dawkins
   * Martijn van Beurden
   * Jérôme Martinez
   * Michael Niedermayer
   * Steve Lhomme
   * Martin Below
   * Michael Richardson
   * Dave Rice

  Regrets
   * Michael Richardson must leave at 21:45.

#### Accept draft minutes from 2023-01-24

   * no comments, accepted as is.

###  WG status update

| Draft | State | Date Posted | Plans
|:------|:------|:------------|:------
| draft-ietf-cellar-chapter-codecs-01   | ID Exists | 2022-12-04  |
| draft-ietf-cellar-codec-09            | ID Exists | 2022-12-04  |
| draft-ietf-cellar-control-01          | ID Exists | 2022-12-04  |
| draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-v4-19          | ID Exists | 2022-12-04  |
| draft-ietf-cellar-flac-07             | Waiting for Shepherd write-up | 2022-10-23  | Shepherd notes sent to mailing list for February meeting
| draft-ietf-cellar-matroska-15         | In Last Call (ends 2023-02-28) | 2023-02-11 | Last Call ends 2023-02-28
| draft-ietf-cellar-tags-09             | ID Exists | 2022-12-04

###  Milestone review:

   * IESG Balloting is next step for Matroska
   * AD Evaluation is next step for FLAC

### Matroska issues - Discussion of Last Call comments on the call.

   * Need to discuss [EBML Lacing details are incorrect #726](https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/matroska-specification/issues/726) issue on the call
   * Clarification of how the negative VINTs are occuring from #726, clarification belongs in the Matroska specification on how to represent these negative VINTs.
   * explains when/where the document goes next... to IESG for balloting.
   *

### FLAC issues - Discussion on the call

   * Spencer **finally** finished the Shepherd Review [in two parts, starting here](https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/cellar/gYqVZiws52oA38zSrqw5yXEj_TA/)
   * comments to the list

### FFV1 v4 issues - Discussion on the call

   * (From Spencer) Any Feedback from [FOSDEM FFV1 presentation](https://fosdem.org/2023/schedule/event/om_ffv1/)?
       * nothing specific
       * some questions about interactions with JPEG-XL - JPEG-XL started with FFV1
       * what is the performance of the different formats, needs some sample files (for different patent-less formats)
   * small wish list is in issue tracker: https://github.com/FFmpeg/FFV1/issues
   * we will go through the issues and prioritize them.
   *

## AOB?

   * (from Spencer) Is it useful to discuss how much we want to rely on the RFC Errata process for specifications with source text in GitHub at a future meeting?
   * (from Spencer) Is it useful to go over the post-WGLC publication process at a future meeting?
   * Next meeting is 2023-04-04 (and then 2023-04-25)


--
Michael Richardson <[e-mail]>   . o O ( IPv6 IøT consulting )
           Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide