Re: [Cellar] virtual interim meeting: 2023-04-25 --DRAFT MINUTES

[Spencer Dawkins at IETF <[e-mail]>]

Please let Spencer and Michael know if we got anything wrong.

Best,

Spencer

------------

CELLAR – DRAFT AGENDA for Virtual Interim Meeting
DateTimeLocal Times
2023-04-25 21:00 Amsterdam Time Converter
<https://savvytime.com/converter/netherlands-amsterdam-to-utc-ny-new-york-city-ca-san-francisco/jun-22-2021/9pm>
Note Meeting time is anchored to Amsterdam
<https://notes.ietf.org/#Administrivia0>Administrivia
<https://notes.ietf.org/#INFO0>INFO:

https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-interim-2023-cellar-04-cellarhttps://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/tree/master/interim-2023-04
**Note that we're now pointing to the Github repo for chair notes here**

<https://notes.ietf.org/#MEETING-INFO-and-WEB-CONFERENCE0>MEETING INFO and
WEB CONFERENCE:

info:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2023-cellar-04/session/cellar
https://meetings.conf.meetecho.com/interim/?short=d591c30a-d20a-407b-81d2-00f4529d4cc5

note that chat is now Zulip:
https://zulip.ietf.org/login/#narrow/stream/cellar
but is accessible via meetecho interface.
<https://notes.ietf.org/#Shared-HedgeDoc-for-notetaking0>Shared HedgeDoc
for notetaking

Now using the Datatracker assigned notepad
at:https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-interim-2023-cellar-04-cellar


   -

   Note that if you log in to the IETF datatracker, you’ll be able to
   edit/clarify/correct these notes, add your name to attendee lists, etc.
   -

   Please ask Michael or Spencer if you have questions.

<https://notes.ietf.org/#2023-virtual-interim-meeting-dates0>2023 virtual
interim meeting dates

   - Please note our 2023 dates listed at
   https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/cellar/meetings/

<https://notes.ietf.org/#Agenda-Items0>Agenda Items
<https://notes.ietf.org/#Note-Well0>Note Well:

https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well/
Please be KIND to each other.

<https://notes.ietf.org/#Roll-call0>Roll call

Attendees

   - Spencer Dawkins
   - Steve Lhomme
   - Martijn van Beurden
   - Jérôme Martinez
   - Michael Niedermayer

<https://notes.ietf.org/#Accept-draft-minutes-from-2023-04-04>Accept draft
minutes from 2023-04-04

   - Martijn said they looked fine, no objections to accepting them.

<https://notes.ietf.org/#WG-status-update0>WG status update
DraftStateDate PostedPlans
draft-ietf-cellar-chapter-codecs-02 ID Exists 2022-12-04
draft-ietf-cellar-codec-10 ID Exists 2022-12-04
draft-ietf-cellar-control-02 ID Exists 2022-12-04
draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-v4-20 ID Exists 2022-12-05
draft-ietf-cellar-flac-08 Submitted to IESG for Publication 2023-04-03
draft-ietf-cellar-matroska-16 Waiting for Writeup::AD Followup 2023-04-01 Last
Call ended 2023-02-28
draft-ietf-cellar-tags-10 ID Exists 2022-12-04
<https://notes.ietf.org/#Milestone-review0>Milestone review:

   - was: IESG Balloting is next step for Matroska
   - was: AD Evaluation is next step for FLAC

<https://notes.ietf.org/#Matroska-issues---Discussion-of-Last-Call-comments-on-the-call0>Matroska
issues - Discussion of Last Call comments on the call.

   - Any issues from WGLC, IETF Last Call and random Internet reviews?
   - Our SECDIR review is overdue for this document
   - No activity on this document since our last virtual meeting

<https://notes.ietf.org/#FLAC-issues---Discussion-on-the-call0>FLAC issues
- Discussion on the call

   - Spencer has sent this to the IESG requesting publication
   - Martjin has added a pull request #212 for the media-type review
   - Spencer has updated the shepherd write-up for the media-type review
   - No update required until we get the AD Evaluation comments back from
   Murray

<https://notes.ietf.org/#FFV1-v4-issues---Discussion-on-the-call0>FFV1 v4
issues - Discussion on the call

   - We don’t need to talk about this during today’s meeting - no cycles to
   work on updates
   - (We have working group censensus that three weeks is really short)

<https://notes.ietf.org/#AOB0>AOB?

   - Steve has worked through the GitHub repo for our previously published
   RFC 8794, as previously discussed (Thank you, Steve!) with the RFC 8794
   with errata applied at
   https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/ebml-specification/tree/rfc8794 with a
   release ZIP file at
   https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/ebml-specification/releases/tag/rfc8794-errata-9
   - Spencer asked the working group participants to look at this GitHub
   structure and make sure we think it will work for us
   - Action: Spencer and Michael will add this to our MAY agenda
   - .iCal file has been broken since last week - times are broken, about 8
   hours off Spencer will report to the tools teams
   - Next meeting is 2023-05-23

<https://notes.ietf.org/#Previous-Minutes---CELLAR-%E2%80%93-DRAFT-MINUTES-from-Virtual-Interim-Meeting>Previous
Minutes - CELLAR – DRAFT MINUTES from Virtual Interim Meeting
DateTimeLocal Times
2023-04-04 21:00 Amsterdam Time Converter
<https://savvytime.com/converter/netherlands-amsterdam-to-utc-ny-new-york-city-ca-san-francisco/jun-22-2021/9pm>
Note Meeting time is anchored to Amsterdam
<https://notes.ietf.org/#Administrivia>Administrivia
<https://notes.ietf.org/#INFO>INFO:

https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-interim-2023-cellar-03-cellarhttps://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/tree/master/interim-2023-03
**Note that we're now pointing to the Github repo for chair notes here**

<https://notes.ietf.org/#MEETING-INFO-and-WEB-CONFERENCE>MEETING INFO and
WEB CONFERENCE:

info:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2023-cellar-03/session/cellar
https://meetings.conf.meetecho.com/interim/?short=c47aaec5-cac1-4f36-b0de-0fda91c8d4e6

note that chat is now Zulip:
https://zulip.ietf.org/login/#narrow/stream/cellar
but is accessible via meetecho interface.
<https://notes.ietf.org/#Shared-HedgeDoc-for-notetaking>Shared HedgeDoc for
notetaking

Now using the Datatracker assigned notepad
at:https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-interim-2023-cellar-03-cellar


   -

   Note that if you log in to the IETF datatracker, you’ll be able to
   edit/clarify/correct these notes, add your name to attendee lists, etc.
   -

   Please ask Michael or Spencer if you have questions.

<https://notes.ietf.org/#2023-virtual-interim-meeting-dates>2023 virtual
interim meeting dates

   - Please note our 2023 dates listed at
   https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/cellar/meetings/

<https://notes.ietf.org/#Agenda-Items>Agenda Items
<https://notes.ietf.org/#Note-Well>Note Well:

https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well/
Please be KIND to each other.

<https://notes.ietf.org/#Roll-call>Roll call

Attendees

   - Spencer Dawkins
   - Michael Richardson
   - Martijn van Beurden
   - Steve Lhomme
   - Martin Below
   - Michael Niedermayer
   - Dave Rice

<https://notes.ietf.org/#Accept-draft-minutes-from-2023-02-28>Accept draft
minutes from 2023-02-28

   - Accepted without objection

<https://notes.ietf.org/#WG-status-update>WG status update
DraftStateDate PostedPlans
draft-ietf-cellar-chapter-codecs-02 ID Exists 2022-12-04
draft-ietf-cellar-codec-10 ID Exists 2022-12-04
draft-ietf-cellar-control-02 ID Exists 2022-12-04
draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-v4-20 ID Exists 2022-12-05
draft-ietf-cellar-flac-08 Waiting for WG Chair Go-Ahead 2023-04-03
draft-ietf-cellar-matroska-16 Waiting for Writeup::AD Followup 2023-04-01 Last
Call ended 2023-02-28
draft-ietf-cellar-tags-10 ID Exists 2022-12-04
<https://notes.ietf.org/#Milestone-review>Milestone review:

   - IESG Balloting is next step for Matroska
   - AD Evaluation is next step for FLAC

<https://notes.ietf.org/#Matroska-issues---Discussion-of-Last-Call-comments-on-the-call>Matroska
issues - Discussion of Last Call comments on the call.

   - Any issues from WGLC, IETF Last Call and random Internet reviews?
   - We have received a General Area Review Team review, and replied to it
   - (Spencer notes that the Security Directorate review is overdue)
   - Should we start a new document for version 5? We can do that, but we
   should expect to focus on review and ballot comments during IESG Review
   - What about EMBLv2? We can start that, because EBMLv1 has been
   published as an RFC, and Matroska v5 will rely on rational number support
   in EBMLv2

<https://notes.ietf.org/#FLAC-issues---Discussion-on-the-call>FLAC issues -
Discussion on the call

   - Document was revised on 2023-04-04
   - Spencer thinks -08 is Just Fine, as far as his previous comments go
   - We’ve had some discussion on the mailing list - have we converged? Yes
   - Does anyone need to look at -08 diffs? No one asked for this on the
   call, and Martijn leaves PRs open for a couple of weeks before merging and
   closing.
   - Next step on this - Spencer will post formal shepherd write-up and
   Request Publication

<https://notes.ietf.org/#FFV1-v4-issues---Discussion-on-the-call>FFV1 v4
issues - Discussion on the call

   - Dave: last meeting, I promised to send an email nudge to the working
   group but I hadn’t done that yet. for v4 I think we just need to stir up
   some discussion
   - The wish list is in issue tracker:
   https://github.com/FFmpeg/FFV1/issues
   - We will go through the issues and prioritize them in GitHub.
   - Dave will send a wakeup call on the mailing list.

<https://notes.ietf.org/#RFC-Errata-versus-GitHub-Issues>RFC Errata versus
GitHub Issues?

   - The issue is that GitHub documents have both errata as well as new
   features and other changes for which there might not be consensus
   - RFCs don’t change, but we can either post issues and changes in
   GitHub, and batch these changes up to go through an IETF publication
   process at some point, or rely on the RFC Errata system
   - We prefer to rely on GitHub, but we should file errata for technical
   errors
   - Proposal is to branch off on publication, so github has the formal
   fixes on the rfcxyz branch, and the master is work in progress
   - The README.ml <http://readme.ml/> file in each repository for a
   specification that has been published as an RFC should explain where to
   look for (1) the published RFC, (2) the corrected RFC, if “Verified” errata
   exist, and (3) the next version of the RFC, including changes that would
   not have IETF consensus (yet), if work is underway on a revision.
   - Matroska’s github has only source code that is hard to read for
   visitors, so maybe work with releases
   - We will start with EBML, which is our only published RFC so far, and
   get that repo set up the way we think all of our repos should be set up.
   - We will revisit this at our next meeting.

<https://notes.ietf.org/#AOB>AOB?

   - Dave Rice noted that this year’s No Time To Wait overlaps IETF 118 in
   Prague, and is also in Prague - this is a great opportunity for overlapping
   - Spencer will talk about the post-WGLC publication process at a future
   meeting
   - Next meeting is 2023-04-25