Re: [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves for key agreement
Watson Ladd <watsonbladd@gmail.com> Tue, 02 September 2014 15:37 UTC
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Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 08:37:08 -0700
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From: Watson Ladd <watsonbladd@gmail.com>
To: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
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Subject: Re: [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves for key agreement
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On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 8:33 AM, Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> wrote: > > > On 02/09/14 16:19, Watson Ladd wrote: >> On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 1:30 AM, Stephen Farrell >> <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> wrote: >>> >>> Just on this point... >>> >>> On 02/09/14 02:50, Benjamin Black wrote: >>>> The various working groups and standards bodies have already answered the >>>> question of what goes on the wire. >>> >>> That's not correct. When CFRG finish doing a great job here, then >>> the TLS WG will have to assign new codepoints for ciphersuites and >>> there is nothing stopping them defining new encodings at that point >>> if that's needed. That'd just not be a big deal. And the same is >>> true of other IETF activities. So what goes on the wire should be >>> a non-issue for this discussion really. >> >> Aren't we replacing SEC1? And doesn't SEC1 specify encodings, which >> other WGs use? > > CFRG is not replacing anything, but rather picking new additional > curves. > > If those new curves turn out to be way more popular then maybe > over time they'll displace use of others, but only time will > tell that, not CFRG. > >> If we end up saying "pairs of integers" then we get a mess, where >> software implementing the curves has to implement a large number of >> encodings. If we specify things as strings of bytes, that's easy to >> deal with. I've heard some people say this was a mistake, but I am >> unconvinced by those arguments. > > The point is that afaik none of those arguments help to pick > new curves. If CFRG want to suggest something for on-the-wire > formats after having picked some curves that's fine and it may > or may not be adopted by various IETF protocols, depending on > how well it fits their needs I guess. > > Main point is: I don't believe wire-format issues make any > difference when picking new curves. *None* of the arguments advanced so far help with picking new curves. What possible difference is there between NUMS and the DJB/Tanja curves? None, because you can always put one in the form of the other. The only solution is a coinflip. > > S. > >> >> Sincerely, >> Watson Ladd >> >> -- "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin
- [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves for k… Brian LaMacchia
- Re: [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves f… Andy Lutomirski
- Re: [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves f… D. J. Bernstein
- Re: [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves f… Brian LaMacchia
- Re: [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves f… Tony Arcieri
- Re: [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves f… Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves f… Benjamin Black
- Re: [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves f… Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves f… Benjamin Black
- Re: [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves f… Robert Ransom
- Re: [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves f… Brian LaMacchia
- Re: [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves f… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves f… Robert Ransom
- Re: [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves f… Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves f… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves f… Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves f… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves f… Nico Williams
- Re: [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves f… Tanja Lange
- Re: [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves f… Benjamin Black
- Re: [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves f… Andrey Jivsov
- Re: [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves f… Benjamin Black
- Re: [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves f… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves f… Benjamin Black
- Re: [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves f… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves f… Andrey Jivsov
- Re: [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves f… Nico Williams
- Re: [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves f… Andrey Jivsov
- Re: [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves f… Michael Hamburg
- Re: [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves f… Brian LaMacchia
- Re: [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves f… Tanja Lange
- Re: [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves f… Paterson, Kenny
- Re: [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves f… Jim Schaad
- Re: [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves f… Markulf Kohlweiss
- Re: [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves f… Paterson, Kenny
- Re: [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves f… Nico Williams
- Re: [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves f… Andy Lutomirski
- Re: [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves f… Manuel Pégourié-Gonnard
- Re: [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves f… Andy Lutomirski
- Re: [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves f… Nico Williams
- Re: [Cfrg] On the use of Montgomery form curves f… Andrey Jivsov