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Re: [CFRG] [EXTERNAL] Re: How will Kyber be added to HPKE (9180)?

John Mattsson <john.mattsson@ericsson.com> Thu, 24 November 2022 16:50 UTC

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From: John Mattsson <john.mattsson@ericsson.com>
To: Ilari Liusvaara <ilariliusvaara@welho.com>, "cfrg@irtf.org" <cfrg@irtf.org>
Thread-Topic: [CFRG] [EXTERNAL] Re: How will Kyber be added to HPKE (9180)?
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/cfrg/yPFFkhSC9eMIKr4tskyURY0TLsc>
Subject: Re: [CFRG] [EXTERNAL] Re: How will Kyber be added to HPKE (9180)?
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If yoy want an Quantum resistant Authenticated key exchage you should probably use TLS, DTLS, QUIC, IKEv2, EDHOC, WireGuard etc
. I.e an existing AKE likely to be updated with QR algorithms and not HPKE

Sent from Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
________________________________
From: CFRG <cfrg-bounces@irtf.org> on behalf of Ilari Liusvaara <ilariliusvaara@welho.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2022 5:27:01 PM
To: cfrg@irtf.org <cfrg@irtf.org>
Subject: Re: [CFRG] [EXTERNAL] Re: How will Kyber be added to HPKE (9180)?

On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 03:58:31PM +0000, Mike Ounsworth wrote:
> Thanks Ilari,
>
> So to make sure I understood you correctly, the Kyber update to HPKE
> will only provide Encap() and Decap(), and WILL NOT provide
> AuthEncap() and AuthDecap() ?

Correct.


> In CMP both client and server have KEM certificates and we need client
> -> server messages to be authenticated by the client certificate. IE
> we were hoping to use HPKE mode_auth as a Kyber replacement for
> DHBasedMac defined in RFC4210 section 5.1.3.2 (authors are still
> discussing, but I think we would just use HPKE to get exporter keys
> to use with a MAC cause we don't need enveloping encryption, but don't
> quote me on that yet).
>
> So if HPKE won't support mode_auth with Kyber, then there's no
> advantage to us adopting HPKE, and we should just define a
> KyberBasedMac mechanism directly based on [Kyber2018] fig 3?

There is no known way to do that (it is equivalent to non-interactive
authenticated key exchange). And that is the reason as why Kyber
will not support AuthEncap/AuthDecap.

As some others have noted, Kyber2018 fig 3 is interactive authenticated
key exchange. And there is no known way to make non-interactive
authenticated key exchange out of interactive authenticated key
exchange.



-Ilari

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