Re: [codec] I-D Action:draft-ietf-codec-opus-00.txt
"Christian Hoene" <hoene@uni-tuebingen.de> Wed, 20 October 2010 17:01 UTC
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From: Christian Hoene <hoene@uni-tuebingen.de>
To: 'Jonathan Rosenberg' <jdrosen@jdrosen.net>
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Cc: codec@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [codec] I-D Action:draft-ietf-codec-opus-00.txt
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Dear Jonathan Rosenberg and Jean-Marc Valin, Thank you very much for answering fast and clearly. As the decision on the name of the codec was made behind closed doors, I had to ask the question on the trademark. Now, after publishing the codec's name, it should be more difficult for a third party to clam a trademark on it. Sincerely Christian PS: Yes, Opus is an excellent name that has a nice allusion to music. --------------------------------------------------------------- Dr.-Ing. Christian Hoene Interactive Communication Systems (ICS), University of Tübingen Sand 13, 72076 Tübingen, Germany, Phone +49 7071 2970532 http://www.net.uni-tuebingen.de/ -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Rosenberg [mailto:jdrosen@jdrosen.net] Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 6:17 PM To: Christian Hoene Cc: codec@ietf.org Subject: Re: [codec] I-D Action:draft-ietf-codec-opus-00.txt <With Skype hat on> No. Since the Opus codec is a product of the IETF it would make no sense for an individual company to trademark the name of an IETF output. -Jonathan R. On 10/20/2010 2:02 AM, Christian Hoene wrote: > Dear Jonathan, > > is Skype registering Opus as trademark? > > With best regards, > > Christian > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > Dr.-Ing. Christian Hoene > Interactive Communication Systems (ICS), University of Tübingen > Sand 13, 72076 Tübingen, Germany, Phone +49 7071 2970532 > http://www.net.uni-tuebingen.de/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: codec-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:codec-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jonathan Rosenberg > Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 2:43 AM > To: codec@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [codec] I-D Action:draft-ietf-codec-opus-00.txt > > IETF has a long history of standards with names - ICE, SIP, POP, IMAP, > etc. These are also acronyms, but increasingly the acronyms are highly > contrived and are basically names (DECADE, ENUM, SALUD) and in some > cases just names (Sieve). However, IETF has not ever filed for > trademarks on any of these, and I see absolutely no reason to start now. > > -Jonathan R. > > > > On 10/19/2010 1:33 PM, Jean-Marc Valin wrote: >> Hi Christian, >> >> I don't know the details of the ITU-T trademark issues, but in this >> case, the Opus name will not be controlled by any company (I'm not aware >> of anyone registering a trademark on the "Opus" name in this context). >> I'm not against the IETF owning the trademark, but I'm not sure any >> ownership is necessary to begin with. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Jean-Marc >> >> As a note, my company does use the term "Opus" in a different domain of >> application (digital signal processor architecture) and sees no issue >> with the IETF using it for an audio codec. Oh, and no, I'm not the one >> who originally suggested that name. >> >> On 10-10-19 01:02 PM, Christian Hoene wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> the ITU had some problems with trademarks that were given to >>> standardized algorithms. >>> As far as I remember, PESQ or PEAQ are trademarked by some companies. >>> Since then, the ITU-T name their standards only by numbers. >>> >>> I do not have any problems with nicknames. However, I think the >>> trademark issue shall be addressed and it is important. I would prefer >>> that such as trademark is owned by the IETF if possible. >>> >>> Uspto.gov does not list an opus codec. But I do not know how fast they >>> (or the readers of this mailing list) are... >>> >>> With best regards, >>> >>> Christian >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Dr.-Ing. Christian Hoene >>> Interactive Communication Systems (ICS), University of Tübingen >>> Sand 13, 72076 Tübingen, Germany, Phone +49 7071 2970532 >>> http://www.net.uni-tuebingen.de/ >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: codec-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:codec-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf >>> Of Stephan Wenger >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 6:05 PM >>> To: codec@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [codec] I-D Action:draft-ietf-codec-opus-00.txt >>> >>> Hi Jean-Marc, >>> >>> Four things: >>> >>> First, indeed, there was a hum at the last meeting. Weak memory on my >>> side. >>> Apologies. >>> >>> Second, hums need to be reconfirmed on the mailing list, and that has not >>> happened according to my read of the email archive. >>> >>> Third, I also missed the submission of draft-ietf-codec-description-00, >>> which was really the time I should have complained. >>> >>> So I'm willing to assume (as apparently have the chairs, see point #2) >>> that >>> there has been an implied consensus of the WG to accept the >>> codec-description draft. Which brings me to point #4: >>> >>> As this is now a WG item, any major change requires WG consensus. >>> Selecting >>> a marketing name, IMO, is such a major change. "Opus" is such a flashy >>> name >>> that certain participants and/or companies conceivably may not like >>> it. For >>> example, if I were working for a company that has in its portfolio an >>> audio >>> product named "Opus", I would object to the name change. So the thing you >>> should have done, IMO, is to send an email to the list saying "The >>> editors >>> consider changing the name of our codec to Opus. Is that acceptable to >>> the >>> WG?". >>> >>> It appears to me that twice you guys (chairs included) have taken >>> shortcuts >>> with the IETF's procedures, as I understand them. That, IMO, fills up >>> your >>> quota for the next couple of years. Please be more conservative from now >>> on. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Stephan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 10.19.2010 08:31 , "Jean-Marc Valin"<jean-marc.valin@octasic.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> draft-ietf-codec-opus-00.txt is indeed a WG item. It has had several >>>> names >>>> in the past, including draft-valin-codec-prototype and >>>> draft-valin-codec-definition, which may explain the confusion. This >>>> is the >>>> draft for which there was a hum during the last meeting. >>>> >>>> Jean-Marc >>>> >>>> On 10-10-19 11:26 AM, Stephan Wenger wrote: >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> I want to inquire the status of this draft. In many working groups, the >>>>> filename "draft-ietf-<wg name>-xxx" indicates that the draft in >>>>> question is >>>>> a WG item of WG<wg-name>. Following this logic, it would appear that >>>>> the >>>>> "opus" draft is now a WG item of the codec WG. I don't recall a >>>>> decision to >>>>> than extent. >>>>> >>>>> If the draft were indeed accepted as a WG item, I would like to >>>>> encourage >>>>> those who made IPR statements related to it, to resubmit those >>>>> statements >>>>> with the new filename. This would help those of us who are searching >>>>> through the IETF IPR tracker by WG name (which is a very common >>>>> thing to do, >>>>> at least for me). >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Stephan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 10.15.2010 13:30 , >>>>> "Internet-Drafts@ietf.org"<Internet-Drafts@ietf.org> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >>>>>> directories. >>>>>> This draft is a work item of the Internet Wideband Audio Codec >>>>>> Working Group >>>>>> of the IETF. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Title : Definition of the Opus Audio Codec >>>>>> Author(s) : J. Valin, K. Vos >>>>>> Filename : draft-ietf-codec-opus-00.txt >>>>>> Pages : 12 >>>>>> Date : 2010-10-15 >>>>>> >>>>>> This document describes the Opus codec, designed for interactive >>>>>> speech and audio transmission over the Internet. >>>>>> >>>>>> A URL for this Internet-Draft is: >>>>>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-codec-opus-00.txt >>>>>> >>>>>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >>>>>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >>>>>> >>>>>> Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader >>>>>> implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the >>>>>> Internet-Draft. >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> codec mailing list >>>>>> codec@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/codec >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> codec mailing list >>>>> codec@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/codec >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> codec mailing list >>> codec@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/codec >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> codec mailing list >>> codec@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/codec >> >> _______________________________________________ >> codec mailing list >> codec@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/codec > -- Jonathan D. Rosenberg, Ph.D. SkypeID: jdrosen Chief Technology Strategist Mobile: +1 (732) 766-2496 Skype SkypeIn: +1 (408) 465-0361 jdrosen@skype.net http://www.skype.com jdrosen@jdrosen.net http://www.jdrosen.net
- [codec] I-D Action:draft-ietf-codec-opus-00.txt Internet-Drafts
- Re: [codec] I-D Action:draft-ietf-codec-opus-00.t… Stephan Wenger
- Re: [codec] I-D Action:draft-ietf-codec-opus-00.t… Jean-Marc Valin
- Re: [codec] I-D Action:draft-ietf-codec-opus-00.t… Stephan Wenger
- Re: [codec] I-D Action:draft-ietf-codec-opus-00.t… Christian Hoene
- Re: [codec] I-D Action:draft-ietf-codec-opus-00.t… Jean-Marc Valin
- Re: [codec] I-D Action:draft-ietf-codec-opus-00.t… Stephen Botzko
- Re: [codec] I-D Action:draft-ietf-codec-opus-00.t… Stephan Wenger
- Re: [codec] I-D Action:draft-ietf-codec-opus-00.t… Jonathan Rosenberg
- Re: [codec] I-D Action:draft-ietf-codec-opus-00.t… Jean-Marc Valin
- Re: [codec] I-D Action:draft-ietf-codec-opus-00.t… Christian Hoene
- Re: [codec] I-D Action:draft-ietf-codec-opus-00.t… Cullen Jennings
- Re: [codec] I-D Action:draft-ietf-codec-opus-00.t… Jonathan Rosenberg
- Re: [codec] I-D Action:draft-ietf-codec-opus-00.t… Christian Hoene