Re: [Detnet-dp-dt] changes to document pushed & some questions...
Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net> Tue, 27 June 2017 17:39 UTC
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To: Balázs Varga A <balazs.a.varga@ericsson.com>, "Detnet-dp-dt@ietf.org" <Detnet-dp-dt@ietf.org>
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From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>
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Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 13:39:21 -0400
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Subject: Re: [Detnet-dp-dt] changes to document pushed & some questions...
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On 6/27/2017 7:44 AM, Balázs Varga A wrote: > Hi Lou, > > - Bidirectional: proposed change is fine with me. okay, I'll make this and the s-label change > - PREF and IPv6: It is not clear for me why the PREF support is considered to be different. > From data plane perspective the PREF related chapters are formulated to be encapsulation > independent. The only difference is that in case of IPv6 the flow-ID does not change during > the transport ("src-IPv6 + Flow-label" remains unchanged), whereas it may change in case of > MPLS (PW-label value may change on a PREF node). But the rest is the same from data plane > function perspective (i.e., eliminate duplicates based on seq-num; do replication). I didn't get this from reading the document the first time. I'll reread and suggest clarifications if needed. > Have I missed something? Do You mean different control plane requirements? No, I was thinking data plane. Thanks, Lou > Cheers > Bala'zs > > -----Original Message----- > From: Detnet-dp-dt [mailto:detnet-dp-dt-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Lou Berger > Sent: 2017. június 26. 17:55 > To: Balázs Varga A <balazs.a.varga@ericsson.com>; Detnet-dp-dt@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Detnet-dp-dt] changes to document pushed & some questions... > > > > On 6/26/2017 11:00 AM, Balázs Varga A wrote: >> Hi, >> >> >> >> I have reviewed all the changes. I am fine with almost all of them >> with the remarks below: >> >> >> >> Figure4: In my view it should be the same figure as Figure 3, as >> DetNet End Systems are connected. >> >> In this case the End Systems generate IPv6 packets with included >> seq-num and are connected to >> >> Relay nodes, what results in no difference regarding the DetNet >> functionalities. >> > It's my understanding that there is major difference in PREF support in this case. > >> It would be a more interesting figure where IPv6 DetNet End Systems >> are connected >> >> to an MPLS based DetNet domain, but it is similar from DetNet function >> perspective to Figure 2. >> >> Let's list the possible combinations: >> >> - We have three End System types: (1) TSN, (2) IPv6 and (3) >> MPLS-capable >> >> - We have two PSN encapsulations: (1) IPv6 and (2) PWoMPLS >> >> There are six possible combinations, however they result in 2 major >> variants from DetNet functions >> >> perspective: >> >> (1) End System type <> PSN type (TSN + IPv6, TSN + PWoMPLS, IPv6 + >> PWoMPLS, MPLS-capable + IPv6) >> >> Edge node needed to ensure PSN specific encapsulation >> >> (2) End System type = PSN type (IPv6 + IPv6, MPLS-capable + PWoMPLS) >> >> No need for Edge node as the encapsulation does not change. >> >> (Note: I think we should treat "MPLS-capable + IPv6" as an invalid >> combination ... ) >> >> Figure 2 and Figure 3 are the representation of these two major >> variants. So do we really need Figure 4? >> >> >> >>> 522 DetNet composite flow, perhaps even when both LSPs appear >> on the >> >> 522 DetNet compound flow, perhaps even when both LSPs appear on the >> >> >> >>> doesn't the above (sec 5.2.2.) imply the PREF with IPv6 is always >> end-to-end, ... >> >> I think this needs further discussion. The intention is to make PREF >> independent of domain borders and >> >> domain encapsulations. >> > It would be good to describe how this works in the v6 case >> >> >>> 1033 7.4. Bidirectional traffic >> This chapter is very much MPLS focused, however the findings are also >> valid for IPv6. Should we make that >> >> more clear? >> > My objective in the first paragraph was to introduce the co-routed and associated concepts/terminology and then say how. How about changing the last paragraph to: > > > While the IPv6 and MPLS data planes must support bidirectional DetNet flows, there > are no special bidirectional features with respect to the data plane > other than need for the two directions take the same paths. Note, > that there is no stated requirement for bidirectional DetNet flows to > be supported using same IPv6 Flow Label or MPLS Labels in each direction. > Control mechanisms will need to support such bidirectional flows for both IPv6 and MPLS, but > such mechanisms are out of scope of this document. > > Lou > >> >> >> Cheers >> >> Bala'zs >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Detnet-dp-dt [mailto:detnet-dp-dt-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >> Lou Berger >> Sent: 2017. június 21. 4:25 >> To: Detnet-dp-dt@ietf.org >> Subject: [Detnet-dp-dt] changes to document pushed & some questions... >> >> >> >> All, >> >> >> >> I made a bunch of changes based on going though the document. Most of >> the comments I discussed. I put non-discussed ones in their own >> commits so it would be easier to eliminate them. Changes are as follows: >> >> commit f79188034b23c80dab2985dc359176e93855376e >> >> Update txt to match change set >> >> commit 01a1798e4645518bb61acf42444b17466c3b56c1 >> >> Make capitalization of section headings consistent. >> >> Not saying I agree with what's there, but now it's >> consistent. >> >> commit 27103f9af301d1a270ca7d6c9bd59a358dc9d1b0 >> >> Revise CoS and QoS sections >> >> commit c98c0efda04c714db22a1cea6eefb77f04d10c4b >> >> General edits: >> >> Fix some capitalization and minor nits >> >> Add intro paragraph and pointer to arch doc, and >> basic scope of >> >> document >> >> Add not on why not using PW over IP >> >> Add placeholder for IP native service figure (4) >> >> Start clarification on congestion protection and >> latency control >> >> Add some comments >> >> commit 5355f195f205d944d21d8242738fab0a6a8363ba >> >> Cleanup L-label and T-label language >> >> commit 78e937b1a25f07618b4b221140fc7fcfc2a43d02 >> >> Move Time Sync into it's own section (new 8) >> >> commit 42bcb46dde2384cb4e3f76406780137086904bae >> >> Use arch defined terms DetNet compound flow and DetNet member >> flow >> >> >> >> >> >> I also came up with following specific questions/comments, which are >> also captured in comments in the file: >> >> >> >> >> >> WRT the title: >> >> >> >> <!-- LB: doesn't "Encapsulation" better fit the scope of the >> current >> >> document than "Solution"? --> >> >> <title abbrev="DetNet Data Plane Solution"> >> >> >> >> WRT L-Label >> >> <!-- LB: why is this called L-Label, I think it'll be confused >> with >> >> the current DiffServ L-LSPs, perhaps a using "(S)vc" would be >> >> better and is aligned with Figure 12 of RFC5921 --> >> >> >> >> <!-- LB: unclear what the following means. Perhaps restate or drop. >> --> >> >> However, transit nodes may have limited capabilities to recognize >> DetNet >> >> specific fields (e.g., in case of MPLS the PW label). Therefore, >> identifying each >> >> individual DetNet flow on a transit node may not be achieved in some >> network >> >> scenarios. >> >> >> >> in Section 5.2.1 >> >> <!-- possibly reference new interworking considerations section >> --> >> >> >> >> In section 5.3.2 >> >> <!-- LB: doesn't the above (sec 5.2.2.) imply the PREF with IPv6 >> is >> >> always end-to-end, or are you PREF domains with replication >> of >> >> incoming packets and scoped domain elimination? I think this >> >> should be explicitly discussed either way --> >> >> >> >> I ran out of steam at the end, but this is enough -- I think... >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Lou >> >> >> >> PS given that I now have contributed text to the document, I should be >> added as a contributor (or author) but I didn't do this as there was >> no contributor section... >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Detnet-dp-dt mailing list >> >> Detnet-dp-dt@ietf.org <mailto:Detnet-dp-dt@ietf.org> >> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet-dp-dt >> > _______________________________________________ > Detnet-dp-dt mailing list > Detnet-dp-dt@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/detnet-dp-dt >
- [Detnet-dp-dt] changes to document pushed & some … Lou Berger
- Re: [Detnet-dp-dt] changes to document pushed & s… Balázs Varga A
- Re: [Detnet-dp-dt] changes to document pushed & s… Lou Berger
- Re: [Detnet-dp-dt] changes to document pushed & s… Balázs Varga A
- Re: [Detnet-dp-dt] changes to document pushed & s… Lou Berger
- Re: [Detnet-dp-dt] changes to document pushed & s… Lou Berger
- Re: [Detnet-dp-dt] changes to document pushed & s… Jouni
- Re: [Detnet-dp-dt] changes to document pushed & s… Lou Berger
- Re: [Detnet-dp-dt] changes to document pushed & s… Jouni
- Re: [Detnet-dp-dt] changes to document pushed & s… Jouni
- Re: [Detnet-dp-dt] changes to document pushed & s… Lou Berger
- Re: [Detnet-dp-dt] changes to document pushed & s… Loa Andersson
- Re: [Detnet-dp-dt] changes to document pushed & s… Jouni