Re: [Detnet] John Scudder's No Objection on draft-ietf-detnet-ip-oam-12: (with COMMENT)
Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> Tue, 13 February 2024 23:35 UTC
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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2024 15:35:02 -0800
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To: "Black, David" <David.Black@dell.com>
Cc: John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-detnet-ip-oam@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-detnet-ip-oam@ietf.org>, DetNet Chairs <detnet-chairs@ietf.org>, DetNet WG <detnet@ietf.org>, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>, Janos Farkas <janos.farkas@ericsson.com>
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Subject: Re: [Detnet] John Scudder's No Objection on draft-ietf-detnet-ip-oam-12: (with COMMENT)
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Hi David and John, I followed David's suggestion and updated the draft using the text proposed by John. Regards, Greg On Tue, Feb 13, 2024 at 3:20 PM Black, David <David.Black@dell.com> wrote: > Hi John, > > I like your suggested addition - you're correct about that dependency on > consistent hashing (and "consistent" is a great word, e.g., as "identical" > is not required). It's better to call that out than assume that the reader > can figure it out. > > Thanks, --David > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Scudder <jgs@juniper.net> > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2024 1:34 PM > To: Greg Mirsky > Cc: The IESG; draft-ietf-detnet-ip-oam@ietf.org; DetNet Chairs; DetNet > WG; Lou Berger; Janos Farkas > Subject: Re: John Scudder's No Objection on draft-ietf-detnet-ip-oam-12: > (with COMMENT) > > > [EXTERNAL EMAIL] > > Hi Greg, > > Looks good. Concerning the > > > ### Section 3.1, co-routing via UDP source port > > point, I think the text you’ve added is good and helpful. However, I > wonder if it’s worth explicitly pointing out that co-routedness depends on > (or may depend on) consistent hashing being done end-to-end. Perhaps this > is obvious enough that it doesn’t need to be stated explicitly, but if you > agree that it’s worth mentioning, possibly something like: > > OLD: > When the UDP destination port > number used by the OAM protocol is assigned by IANA, then judicious > selection of the UDP source port may be able to achieve co-routedness > of OAM with the monitored IP DetNet flow in multipath environments, > e.g., Link Aggregation Group or Equal Cost Multipath, via use of a > UDP source port value that results in the OAM traffic and the > monitored IP DetNet flow hashing to the same path based on the packet > header hashes used for path selection. > > NEW: > When the UDP destination port > number used by the OAM protocol is assigned by IANA, then judicious > selection of the UDP source port may be able to achieve co-routedness > of OAM with the monitored IP DetNet flow in multipath environments, > e.g., Link Aggregation Group or Equal Cost Multipath, via use of a > UDP source port value that results in the OAM traffic and the > monitored IP DetNet flow hashing to the same path based on the packet > header hashes used for path selection. This does assume that forwarding > equipment along the multipath makes consistent hashing decisions, which > might not always be true in a heterogeneous environment. > > Please don’t feel obligated to use the text I’ve supplied, or even to make > any change at all. > > Thanks, > > —John > > > On Feb 12, 2024, at 9:02 PM, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Hi John, > > I appreciate your support of this work. Please find my notes below > tagged GIM>>. I've attached the working version that includes all the > updates applied based on your suggestions. > > > > Regards, > > Greg > > > > On Mon, Feb 12, 2024 at 1:19 PM John Scudder via Datatracker < > noreply@ietf.org> wrote: > > John Scudder has entered the following ballot position for > > draft-ietf-detnet-ip-oam-12: No Objection > > > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > > > > Please refer to > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/about/groups/iesg/statements/handling-ballot-positions/__;!!LpKI!g0o6JGqoeVfAkZKpNtTv2HsZH5ZRX6_vPk73ckPFGHEowq-wSQD2nYkC1tQ9igxnFBJyOJ5T6OXO$ > [ietf[.]org] > > for more information about how to handle DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-ip-oam/__;!!LpKI!g0o6JGqoeVfAkZKpNtTv2HsZH5ZRX6_vPk73ckPFGHEowq-wSQD2nYkC1tQ9igxnFBJyOAInQxO7$ > [datatracker[.]ietf[.]org] > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > COMMENT: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Thanks for this document. I have some mostly minor comments below, that > I hope > > may be helpful. Also, thanks to Roman for being special guest AD, and to > János > > for the clear and helpful shepherd write-up. > > > > ### Section 2.1, unused > > > > Defined, never used: > > > > - DiffServ (but I notice 'DSCP' is used without expansion in Section 3) > > GIM>> Removed and replaced DSCP with the expanded form > > - PREF (except it's used by a later definition) > > GIM>> REmoved and replaced PREF with the expanded form > > - POF > > - RDI > > GIM>> Removed and removed > > > > I think all these could be removed (folding PREF into the 'Detnet Node' > > definition where it's used). > > > > Defined, only used once: > > > > - ACH is used in Figure 1, and you provide a definition in-line, which is > > sufficient, so I think this could be removed from §2.1. - Underlay > network, in > > this case, the definition seems useful since it keeps the paragraph in > §3 more > > concise. > > GIM>> Removed ACH from the Terminology. Added PREOF expansion as the > footnote of Figure 1. > > > > ### Section 3, this sentence no verb > > > > It took me longer than I would care to admit to work out that what's > missing in > > this sentence is the verb "to be": > > > > "The DetNet data plane encapsulation in a transport network with IP > > encapsulations specified in Section 6 of [RFC8939]." > > > > I.e. it needs an "is" before "specified". > > GIM>> Thank you, I agree. > > > > ### Section 3, "e.g." or "i.e." > > > > In the below-quoted sentence, do you really mean "e.g."? That is, are you > > stating an example? It doesn't look that way to me, it looks as though > you mean > > "in other words", not "for example" which is what "e.g." means. If you > mean "in > > other words", what you want is "i.e.", or just write out "in other > words" for > > the avoidance of all uncertainty. > > > > "In order to use ICMP for these purposes with DetNet, DetNet nodes must > be able > > to associate ICMP traffic between DetNet nodes with IP DetNet traffic, > e.g., > > ensure that such ICMP traffic uses the DetNet IP data plane in each node, > > otherwise ICMP may be unable to detect and localize failures that are > specific > > to the DetNet IP data plane." > > GIM>> Thank you for raising this question. You are correct; the > intention was "in other words," and I updated the text accordingly. > > > > ### Section 3.1, co-routing via UDP source port > > > > I'm mulling over "may be able to achieve co-routedness of OAM with the > > monitored IP DetNet flow in multipath environments, e.g., Link > Aggregation > > Group or Equal Cost Multipath, via use of a UDP source port value that > results > > in the OAM traffic and the monitored IP DetNet flow hashing to the same > path > > based on the packet header hashes used for path selection". > > > > I guess this is true, but the word "may" is doing a lot of work here. The > > counter-case is when the hash function isn't uniform among all > forwarders in > > the network. In such cases, it might not be possible to use this > technique to > > co-route the OAM with a monitored flow. > > > > I guess this might just be a case of ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ though -- your document is > > saying "you have to have co-routing to get good OAM"... if the network > isn't > > able to provide co-routed paths, then oh well, we can't have good OAM, > perhaps > > it means we need to rearchitect the network? > > > > If you agree, is it worth saying a few words to that effect (maybe > without the > > shrug emoji) in this section? > > GIM>> You've captured and expressed the message correctly, thank you. > Would the following text make that position clear: > > NEW TEXT: > > It is essential to ensure that specially constructed > > OAM packets traverse the same set of nodes and links and receive the > > same network QoS treatment as the monitored data flow, e.g., a DetNet > > flow, for making active OAM useful. > > > > ### Section 4, wrong xref > > > > "Interworking between DetNet domains with IP and MPLS data planes > analyzed in > > Section 6.2 of [I-D.ietf-detnet-mpls-oam]." > > > > There is no Section 6.2 of draft-ietf-detnet-mpls-oam-15. Section 6 is > Security > > Considerations. Probably you mean Section 4.2? > > GIM>> Thank you for catching the stale reference. Fixed. > > > > ### Section 7 > > > > You have "TBA" as the whole body of this section. I guess it's time to > either > > put something there or delete the section. :-) > > GIM>> Removed. > > <draft-ietf-detnet-ip-oam-13.txt> > >
- [Detnet] John Scudder's No Objection on draft-iet… John Scudder via Datatracker
- Re: [Detnet] John Scudder's No Objection on draft… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [Detnet] John Scudder's No Objection on draft… John Scudder
- Re: [Detnet] John Scudder's No Objection on draft… Greg Mirsky
- Re: [Detnet] John Scudder's No Objection on draft… John Scudder
- Re: [Detnet] John Scudder's No Objection on draft… Black, David
- Re: [Detnet] John Scudder's No Objection on draft… Greg Mirsky