Re: [dispatch] [art] Status of Haptics I-D in DISPATCH?

Folks,

First off, glad to see some traffic on the haptics I-D. Thanks to Francesca for jump-starting the latest round of discussion.

At the risk of sounding biased (as one of the authors of the I-D), I would second Ted’s latest proposal that we not overload the WG with other media type-related work, lest it end up de-prioritizing or delaying consideration of the haptics proposal. I appreciate the importance of Ned’s list, but Ted is correct in that the time to get the haptics proposal reviewed (and hopefully, approved) is not unbounded. More on that below.

Setting aside the implications (inadvertent or otherwise) of Claudio’s comment that Apple or Google need to be on the authors list for IETF to even consider an ID  (or work on it expeditiously),  I would point to the following Draft Amendment of the ISO/IEC 14496-12 (ISO Base Media File Format) standard. It is the one that has our proposal to treat haptics as a top-level media type, akin to audio and video, in ISOBMFF files (like .mp4, .3gpp, etc.).

https://www.iso.org/standard/81604.html

For those familiar with how MPEG works, a DAMD means that the proposal has gone through two rounds of balloting from various ISO National Bodies (including the US National Body). And yes, Apple and Google are indeed part of the US National Body 😊. We are happy to report that no objections were received to the haptics proposal in either the CD or DAMD ballot rounds from any of the 20+ National Bodies that voted on it. It has now moved to FDIS ballot (the haptics proposal having been merged with other updates to 14496-12 for a new 7th edition) that is expected to complete by July.

MPEG has also issued a Call for Proposals on the Coded Representation of Haptics – Phase 1 at the just concluded MPEG134 meeting last week. The CfP seeks technologies that would help standardize a haptic coding format and a haptic decoder in MPEG. The press release and final CfP docs themselves should be available in a few days. Draft versions of the Haptics CfP documents from MPEG133 in January 2021 can be found here: https://www.mpegstandards.org/standards/Explorations/40/.

I present the above information not as conclusive evidence, but as valid data points to be considered in our discussions on this I-D.

I look forward to the next steps and to answering any questions on the content of the I-D itself.

Thanks,
Yeshwant

Yeshwant Muthusamy, Ph.D. | Senior Director, Standards
[cid:image001.jpg@01D74012.2D299D90]
ymuthusamy@immersion.com<mailto:ymuthusamy@immersion.com> | +1 469-583-2171

From: Ted Hardie <ted.ietf@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, May 3, 2021 11:30 AM
To: Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com>
Cc: Claudio Allocchio <Claudio.Allocchio@garr.it>; Dispatch WG <dispatch@ietf.org>; dispatch-chairs@ietf.org; Applications and Real-Time Area Discussion <art@ietf.org>; ART ADs <art-ads@ietf.org>; Francesca Palombini <francesca.palombini=40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; draft-muthusamy-dispatch-haptics@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [dispatch] [art] Status of Haptics I-D in DISPATCH?

I think the set of work items Ned lays out might well be the basis for a working group.  I have concerns, however, with including the registration for a haptics top-level type in that work.

As the draft points out, there is a good bit of active work going on related to haptics in other forums (e.g. the MPEG Systems File Format sub-group).  If the work on registering a top-level haptics type is interspersed with work on multiple media type suffixes and media types for programming languages, I have concerns about the speed with which it can complete.  If we want to see haptic signals be treated appropriately as a media type, I suspect the time we have to do it is not unbounded.  My personal advice is thus to progress the haptics work separately.  If that means as an ad-sponsored draft, I'm personally okay with that, but I think the best other option is to do it as its own short-lived group.  The other work (and the relevant expertise) is pretty distinct.

Just my personal opinion,

Ted

On Mon, May 3, 2021 at 4:24 PM Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com<mailto:ned.freed@mrochek.com>> wrote:
Accidently omitted one item from the list that I *did* know about:

(4) Review the format of the media type registry. One suggestion, which
    I think came from John Klensin, was that given media type names can be
    grandfathered, the name itself isn't a reliable indicator of the
    of the tree, so a column listing the tree the type is in would be
    helpful.

                                Ned

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Re: [dispatch] [art] Status of Haptics I-D in DISPATCH?

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