[dispatch] dispatch 94 meeting notes - summary
"A. Jean Mahoney" <mahoney@nostrum.com> Thu, 05 November 2015 06:01 UTC
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From: "A. Jean Mahoney" <mahoney@nostrum.com>
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Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2015 15:00:51 +0900
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Subject: [dispatch] dispatch 94 meeting notes - summary
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Hi all, Below are summary notes from the meeting in Yokohama. Thanks, Jean DISPATCH WG - IETF 94 - November 2015 Wednesday, July 22, 2015 Location: Room 502 Chairs: Mary Barnes, Cullen Jennings, Murray Kucherawy Note takers: Jean Mahoney and Richard Barnes Jabber Scribe: Jonathan Lennox Jabber log: http://www.ietf.org/jabber/logs/dispatch/2015-11-04.html --------------------------------------------------------- 13:00-13:10 Agenda and Status Presenter: Mary Barnes Presentation: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/94/slides/slides-94-dispatch-1.pdf Mary announced that DISPATCH now has three chairs. Murray Kucherawy has joined from the former Apps area. The agenda was updated with the removal of the HTTP problem statement presentation. Mark Nottingham announced that he was updating RFC 5988, Web Linking (draft-nottingham-rfc5988bis), and would bring it to the list when it was ready. ACTION: Mark Nottingham to bring RFC5988bis to the list when ready. DONE: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/t7M03TQsr8qScwkxxkY9sTirwnc Mary reminded the room that Dispatch has earlier deadlines for IETF meetings. However work can be dispatched on list, and doesn't have to wait for a meeting. --------------------------------------------------------- 13:10-13:25 *Updated* DISPATCH WG charter (chairs, WG) https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/BhiAC1FENumiAa9NKpNxiB1Fwdk Presenter: Mary Barnes Presentation: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/94/slides/slides-94-dispatch-1.pdf Robert Sparks pointed out that red text in otherwise black text was not an effective highlighting mechanism for people with colorblindness. Barry Leiba emphasized that DISPATCH would not do any standards work. The only work would be simple administrative tasks like creating drafts for IANA registration. Alissa Cooper thought the wording "The privacy of the network" was strange and will send text. ACTION: Alissa Cooper to send feedback on the Charter to the list. DONE: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/ldp8MwSy6NOoEafVOs3YbXautO0 Murray said that people liked the Monday appsawg meeting when WGs gave status, and that there will be an ART area general meeting to summarize wg status in Buenos Aires. Ben Campbell clarified that the summaries will cover new work and highlights, not everything worked on since the last meeting. No one else had comments on the charter. --------------------------------------------------------- 13:25-13:55 An Opportunistic Approach for Secure Real-time Transport Protocol Presenter: Alan Johnston Document: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-johnston-dispatch-osrtp/ charter proposal: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/u4-gTan844X8_Vs0JVLWGbIg47g Presentation: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/94/slides/slides-94-dispatch-0.pdf Martin Thomson had a correction for slide 8: Approach Continued, saying that we rely on authenticated signaling channel for DTLS-SRTP. Jonathan Lennox said that the point of opportunistic security was that, although it might allow MITM, it was better than nothing. Magnus Westerlund wasn't sure if MIKEY would work. ACTION: Verify which, if any, MIKEY modes work. Jon said that the weakest security option could be picked and it could be problematic. Alan said the draft could use feedback on the security options and it listed alternatives, not preferences. Jon wanted to ensure all options listed were appropriate. Jonathan requested that the motivational text include why no one uses Cap-Neg, which had the same goal as this draft, and asked if this document would obsolete Cap-Neg. Cullen, as chair, said that the draft would be dispatched, and although a charter was included in the presentation, a working group was not going to be created. Alan asked for solid reviews. Roni Even said that RFC 5763 would need to be updated. Christer Holmberg supported this work, saying that it goes hand-in-hand with DTLS-SDP. Richard Barnes was uncomfortable with including SDES in the options and would prefer it removed. He did not believe the draft should be a BCP since anything in the middle could downgrade the security. He also felt that, due to differences between AVP and SAVP, complexity would be introduced. Alan pointed out that most secure devices use SDES and that restricting SDES would leave them out. Jonathan Lennox pointed out a limitation with early media. ACTION: Alan to document the early media limitation. A participant from Deutsche Telekom supported this work, and spoke against Cap-Neg. Jonathan and Christer said that the work should be done in MMUSIC. Cullen didn't want the room to focus on where the work should be done, but on whether the work should be done. Charles Eckel supported this work, and said that he had an implementation. Mary, as chair, took a hum: Should we do the work in the ART area? many hums and hums in the Jabber room. Should we not work on this problem? one hum RESULTS of hum: strong consensus for the ART area doing the work. Richard reiterated that the middle could force security down and said allowing calls to go through can create barriers to implementing security since it doesn't motivate people to fix the security issue. Richard recommended creating minimum security requirements. Jon wanted the ability to vote security options "off the island", but understood Alan's response to SDES. Jon said that the negotiation mechanism could be separate from a security BCP. Richard did not want the draft to be considered a BCP, and wanted caveats that it was a transition technology. Charles said that causing calls to fail will cause security not to be turned on. When both sides can support it, it can be turned on without disrupting calls. Alan Ford supported this work. Jonathan mentioned an extension [ajm: that I missed], but Alan said that it didn't solve the problem. Richard pointed out that web browsers show open or closed lock icons to indicate the security state; phones don't have those icons. Cullen and Mary said some do. Richard wanted it to be clear that the user may not receive indication of the security state. --------------------------------------------------------- 13:55-14:10 HTTP problem statement Presenter: Mark Nottingham Document: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-nottingham-http-problem-07.txt Not covered --------------------------------------------------------- 14:10-14:25 The font Primary Content type Presenter: Mark Nottingham on behalf of W3C Document: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lilley-font-toplevel-00 Presentation: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/94/slides/slides-94-dispatch-3.pdf Mark said that there was support in apps-discuss, but no one wrote the draft, but W3C wants it to happen now and they wrote the draft. John Levine, Sean Leonard, Tony Hansen asked if there was a community that wanted it and would implement it. Wendy Seltzer said there was an active web fonts group in W3C that want to use this and was working on drafts. Martin said that fonts were approaching Turing complete and suspicion was warranted. Richard said that browsers determine if content is safe based on media type, and that it may not be safe to put fonts in a primary content type. Barry said that fonts fit the model of a top level type. Barry supported the work and it would go to a new working group. The work had to be standards track. Murray and Cullen, as chairs, said that the next step is for people interested in the work to create a charter. Then the chairs would look at the charter. Mark was happy with the plan. ACTION: People interested in font Primary Content type to create a charter for the work. --------------------------------------------------------- draft-west-webappsec-csp-reg Mark asked if draft-west-webappsec-csp-reg, which is requesting a registry for CSP directives, could be AD sponsored. Murray, as chair, felt that the draft fell under house-keeping and could be done in DISPATCH. Barry, as AD, said that he would let the chairs decide, and would AD-sponsor if they decided not to handle it in DISPATCH. Alissa, as AD, saw no reason to do the work in the independent stream. Richard was fine with doing the work in DISPATCH. ACTION: WG to review draft-west-webappsec-csp-reg and send comments to the list. ACTION: Mark to send a pointer to the list. DONE: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/SOfXJMCaId3kg2GfSIpoCR8IQe0 --------------------------------------------------------- 14:25-14:40 Ultra Low Latency for realtime applications Presenter: Koen De Schepper Proposal (including related drafts): https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/vn2Ew1MsmvnCeizFVx5dBoYS0z8 Presentation: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/94/slides/slides-94-dispatch-2.pdf Mary, as chair, pointed out that the presentation was informational, and a decision was not needed. Richard asked if the application needed to do anything. Koen said only TCP stacks needed to be updated to support scalable TCP. Ben thought it was interesting, but that the room could not determine cost or implications. He felt it was a TSV topic. Koen agreed. Bob Briscoe clarified that scalable TCP can only be used in a data center, since it's too aggressive, and pushes other traffic out of the way. The queuing system would enable use outside of the data center. ACTION: Bob Briscoe to send pointers to the list. DONE: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/VDPX0Hzj21vbQJ7N9C9n-iVuafc --------------------------------------------------------- Wrap-up Cullen announced that draft-west-webappsec-csp-reg, which was just dispatched, was already in LC. Richard said that the work was dispatched with dispatch.
- [dispatch] dispatch 94 meeting notes - summary A. Jean Mahoney
- Re: [dispatch] dispatch 94 meeting notes - summary Mary Barnes