Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARCbis WGLC - Issue 144 Mention of ARC in DMARCbis

Emanuel Schorsch <emschorsch@google.com> Tue, 02 April 2024 08:02 UTC

Return-Path: <emschorsch@google.com>
X-Original-To: dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28DB3C14F69C for <dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 2 Apr 2024 01:02:54 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -17.596
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.596 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, ENV_AND_HDR_SPF_MATCH=-0.5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GWnPBVLZyc7T for <dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 2 Apr 2024 01:02:52 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-ed1-x536.google.com (mail-ed1-x536.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::536]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0AD95C14F685 for <dmarc@ietf.org>; Tue, 2 Apr 2024 01:02:52 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-ed1-x536.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-56c0bd07e7bso4941952a12.1 for <dmarc@ietf.org>; Tue, 02 Apr 2024 01:02:51 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20230601; t=1712044970; x=1712649770; darn=ietf.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=WtSzV8K66zBsrXp5TTISJyhYZn9LPSDFlQzV14zy2HE=; b=XxGoMae1K+hcmZ04DkqxjObHpbRiQFU2ImRHT2uSty2aSxigLAwpBluIfvh/qVv8bA Yzb2+RZkVzkVyXnD7skd5EuhT/hKrekurjejE30q8ML9hhfYdWMyVYGJUZUWYIHm8uPS Lpyza03+E0ytBBuDJyQsdlE8TK93/qYS2Fktg/aQHayoyGCX2vuMErUT4ws/B79rnQEF F4EnPaI1I40RCgs9ucP31fwKhGLVtR/ZpWS74QnG01vtsILmG1zOlxytih/bRtRIi7TP dMLB/t7SSD6MmKfBqlAJluWgm+tOj7nSvGi+9pCL8Zg3lRO1jP+o4+i8Z0MyVH6W6Yfc IsOw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1712044970; x=1712649770; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=WtSzV8K66zBsrXp5TTISJyhYZn9LPSDFlQzV14zy2HE=; b=DQG0OBHz+8w6Dndx15XBvUNrmZBziNHAgv1wlmro4cJsq7D04eS/b1z5q35JeUfK4O RHQYanZ9w2JlYEkN+4RMo5f56jWLffnXwT+laPzdru9AdFoZFyAhTKbdExxQPJQifSKd fCXA4oZquLYN0zs4m6yNUqJ9MFclP9jzaLnNvjtX8on4XKGONzK34G7Lkd9OBSpjuawt o17dHeCrj06td+Ao5dWo0OwFb9jn7vy0mg/u3JMZ0XvURSHRWO0Z1zLsRnv2RJBqeqvs EnLKxm19RzEsVxY2i6UVmyeY1g3va3imA1bjinFw9GkYhAyX1xUgqkHspC7JS09P7PLF xzIQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yy6XbJEnpVh9K9ykbkFtaafxCMI+c/uFGBAZpo1id+qK7iHrdA7 85oQRMmpQDQCFyCiw9NbIoxgML3nQLM3LgToB6k/Ro9Xeyw/xK3AK51QqeSUS5HIeVbjrOqj/b1 VxRlZy4rwM0+XIGBtOa82WxBV8fr0pbr9NUlLXxkm8kHmWPuKww==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHozpIpAs65zmIz9XdyWcC50nbbCJqOxczmsTfmbIR4/o0rzlhJJv3YxkTMaeU+8Ei1+9DRWd9gH++KQWU/370=
X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:fb95:b0:a46:9e84:37d7 with SMTP id lr21-20020a170906fb9500b00a469e8437d7mr6815196ejb.74.1712044969675; Tue, 02 Apr 2024 01:02:49 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CAHej_8x7jGiMQmuJR8qnp5ET8i_Xqz1p4YSeM6RkeY3YiNfaxg@mail.gmail.com> <20240401230502.531CA86A7CC2@ary.qy> <CAL0qLwZakrXvDQPc851ggDuipbdv9+zApPYESkfYq12QB3_UAA@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAL0qLwZakrXvDQPc851ggDuipbdv9+zApPYESkfYq12QB3_UAA@mail.gmail.com>
From: Emanuel Schorsch <emschorsch@google.com>
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2024 01:02:08 -0700
Message-ID: <CAFcYR_WFXZv3z_RPavixYHMRy=kVxYrfUDiUjy18FbgYuXCk3w@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Murray S. Kucherawy" <superuser@gmail.com>
Cc: dmarc@ietf.org
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004251d10615188815"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dmarc/-nqbSICTM5rsQVWbFqaEGgb7S_k>
Subject: Re: [dmarc-ietf] DMARCbis WGLC - Issue 144 Mention of ARC in DMARCbis
X-BeenThere: dmarc@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting, and Compliance \(DMARC\)" <dmarc.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dmarc>, <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dmarc/>
List-Post: <mailto:dmarc@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmarc>, <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2024 08:02:54 -0000

Just to chime in, Gmail is using ARC and it has already provided a large
amount of value for the indirect flow problem. Especially, since other
major providers and a number of forwarders are adding ARC headers that
provide us useful visibility into the previous hops and allow us to make
more intelligent decisions. I can share that a number of escalations for
problems that arose out of indirect flows have been resolved by use of ARC
headers.

I would love to see more mailingLists add ARC headers. But as stands today
it is already providing a reasonably large amount of value.

On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 6:48 PM Murray S. Kucherawy <superuser@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 4:05 PM John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>
>> >"One possible mitigation to problem X is [ARC], which provides for a
>> >mechanism to demonstrate 'chain-of-custody' of a message. However, use of
>> >ARC is nascent, as is industry experience with it in connection with
>> DMARC."
>>
>> Generally OK but nascent seems wrong for something that was published five
>> years ago.  How about "ARC has found limited acceptance in the industy so
>> it is unclear how much help it will provide in practice."
>>
>
> Sure.  I used "nascent" because I don't feel like we have seen even basic
> statements about how useful it's been in solving the indirect flows
> problem, at scale or otherwise, so it's nascent in the same sense that it
> is not well-established.
>
> -MSK, p11g
> _______________________________________________
> dmarc mailing list
> dmarc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmarc
>