Re: [DMM] DMM WG Adoption Poll (2) for "Mobile User Plane Evolution" - draft-zzhang-dmm-mup-evolution-06

["Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <[e-mail]>]

Hi,

As a co-author, I support the adoption. I am not aware of undisclosed IPRs.

Thanks for David and Miya’s comments. Please see zzh> below for my responses.



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From: dmm <[e-mail]> On Behalf Of David Lake
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2023 3:50 AM
To: Miya Kohno <[e-mail]>; Satoru Matsushima <[e-mail]>
Cc: dmm <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [DMM] DMM WG Adoption Poll (2) for "Mobile User Plane Evolution" - draft-zzhang-dmm-mup-evolution-06

[External Email. Be cautious of content]

Miya

“ANUP solely addresses user plane convergence and tries to liaise with 3GPP, but I'm afraid this is a half-baked attempt.”

Absolutely agree and there are many aspects of the current 3GPP design which are not very ‘IETF-like’ that we should be considering (removal of IMS and total separation of the voice/text service from the transport network would be the first item I’d consider – then move onto the use of tunnels, then look at authentication, then at a truly global-mobile solution… etc.)

So this draft is good but I agree it only really addresses the ‘here-and-now’ and we have much in the control plane that needs reworking.

Zzh> While the subject is User Plane Evolution, the integration of AN and UPF does allow optimization of control plane, and it is discussed in the document. That control plane optimization is what makes the ANUP proposal different from an implementation choice of putting AN and UPF on the same device but keep using N2/N4 signaling.

What I think we need in IETF (and it is not in a chartered group such as DMM – that scope is known) is a study of the current ‘mobile’ infrastructure with reference to how today’s consumers are using it predominantly for Internet access (a good thing for IETF and that includes voice and text which is mostly OTT now) and whether the current economic and architectural models fit that use case.

Zzh> As the DMM chairs and ADs have said, IETF does not do 3GPP standardization. This draft makes it clear that it represents some thoughts from IETF/wireline background on the MUP topic, but the actual specification work need to happen in 3GPP.
Zzh> We’re not trying to boil the ocean. Additional study can be done, but it’s outside the scope of this document.
Zzh> More below.

Where I struggle is that is probably not an IETF WG or IRTF RG.

David

From: dmm <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> on behalf of Miya Kohno <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Date: Friday, 20 October 2023 at 02:02
To: Satoru Matsushima <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Cc: dmm <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>, [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]> <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Subject: Re: [DMM] DMM WG Adoption Poll (2) for "Mobile User Plane Evolution" - draft-zzhang-dmm-mup-evolution-06
Hello,

Though this draft is mostly agreeable, drastic improvement also requires the control plane work.

Zzh> The document does acknowledge that the control plane optimization can be enabled by the integration of AN and UPF.

In fact, RAN Core convergence has already been discussed.
e.g.
https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/10073488<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/10073488__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!ED_3G1ChCUv5T37QYoEWA9ltsxEHO33FoGjCMxCe6Z8riE_4M5eZ-Wr4dGuJ8Xcf_Ih6XqfEKIyKt2IEbSu8cIfZ2I8jsXg_$>
https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/10001281<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/10001281__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!ED_3G1ChCUv5T37QYoEWA9ltsxEHO33FoGjCMxCe6Z8riE_4M5eZ-Wr4dGuJ8Xcf_Ih6XqfEKIyKt2IEbSu8cIfZ2DWmHGPv$>

ANUP solely addresses user plane convergence and tries to liaise with 3GPP, but I'm afraid this is a half-baked attempt.

Zzh> We’re not trying to boil the ocean. There are many many RFCs in IETF, each addressing a particular problem.
Zzh> As far as AN and UPF integration, I believe this document is complete on the idea, though the actual specification work will need to be done in 3GPP.

The MUP[*] assumes no change to 5GC, and I think IETF DMM should focus on this at least for the time being.

Architecture: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-mhkk-dmm-srv6mup-architecture-05.html<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-mhkk-dmm-srv6mup-architecture-05.html__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!ED_3G1ChCUv5T37QYoEWA9ltsxEHO33FoGjCMxCe6Z8riE_4M5eZ-Wr4dGuJ8Xcf_Ih6XqfEKIyKt2IEbSu8cIfZ2IFyDaV5$>
Motivation: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-kohno-dmm-srv6mob-arch-07.html<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-kohno-dmm-srv6mob-arch-07.html__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!ED_3G1ChCUv5T37QYoEWA9ltsxEHO33FoGjCMxCe6Z8riE_4M5eZ-Wr4dGuJ8Xcf_Ih6XqfEKIyKt2IEbSu8cIfZ2G2zylgJ$>

Zzh> I don’t think the DMM WG is resource-stressed to have a narrow focus. This does not conflict with the drafts you’re referring to.
Zzh> Thanks.
Zzh> Jeffrey

Cheers,
Miya


On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 6:42 PM Satoru Matsushima <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
Dear DMMers,

This email starts a two-weeks DMM WG adoption poll (2) for ""Mobile User Plane Evolution" - draft-zzhang-dmm-mup-evolution-06.

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zzhang-dmm-mup-evolution/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zzhang-dmm-mup-evolution/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!ED_3G1ChCUv5T37QYoEWA9ltsxEHO33FoGjCMxCe6Z8riE_4M5eZ-Wr4dGuJ8Xcf_Ih6XqfEKIyKt2IEbSu8cIfZ2P3qbMas$>

Please review the draft and post any comments on this mail thread prior to Friday, November 3rd, 2023.

Regards,
Sri, Satoru

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