IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [dns-privacy] Intermediate proposal (what I was saying at the mic)

Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net> Mon, 02 August 2021 04:22 UTC

Return-Path: <mt@lowentropy.net>
X-Original-To: dns-privacy@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dns-privacy@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AEA83A0593 for <dns-privacy@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 1 Aug 2021 21:22:27 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.098
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=lowentropy.net header.b=jFR0mU7j; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=fo4bUIZK
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LUnLg4iRq8G9 for <dns-privacy@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 1 Aug 2021 21:22:21 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com (out1-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8D3493A058F for <dns-privacy@ietf.org>; Sun, 1 Aug 2021 21:22:21 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from compute5.internal (compute5.nyi.internal [10.202.2.45]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30D4A5C00F7 for <dns-privacy@ietf.org>; Mon, 2 Aug 2021 00:22:20 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from imap41 ([10.202.2.91]) by compute5.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 02 Aug 2021 00:22:20 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lowentropy.net; h=mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to :subject:content-type; s=fm2; bh=NIJW3zf+e3QpJ3pg+a2BtU582JXzqbj m+ZPG+Ha8z68=; b=jFR0mU7jnsSq+SIv3BjKGk4lgC1/JkU2cElpfnE5iAqSgRx V03IueXheqckA1fOE+z+0PXt60IQQovmFF4bA7oXT5JYvrgYUklbv3anohavGy09 4r4wrz7d7rPzraB16uXO2rQ6IHFUA7N9yfzEYkYrqHwXv4+SjfdbfmwYKLkNBpY7 sz7j0771llMRJwmwPs4DUo89RIbaww0Z0F9RihhuGrWryYPMOpb7j0GVEek5aBjF s3V42+n0DL/GwT/a135BACS6azwekqlmrYHpDuNnBVKivTUSGdIE2qDzSdDvZSe/ VfoAGv5RHUiV/xEQyW+DYBgVE9SbHROyBs6O+WQ==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=NIJW3z f+e3QpJ3pg+a2BtU582JXzqbjm+ZPG+Ha8z68=; b=fo4bUIZKwjm7rBVL740jgM qfoPoQeccYThBL5SRle3P4CqakOdkhRyJ2/PdYKUMjSeCssxvd6VfYim08gSQ9/L K8Qow8SORRIgwZVm0yfHEe6wYgHxIS/Wt5WE6wC8zWDE61lPsrvebKJJrelkbKGp YynP3bfwEInFP4f8GA2IrRwomD3nbKlEvGkt99nvimZUP4w9F736GkyxXvRc8AyO eoSbKgQ5IU2bx1aBXhgAYe6uykKWqUA8A4tIXVsC1HEv+v98C99mhMMkLUWQVgM+ Fj1fsTbzu3M7cTfh8K2td2q9uZj+bGQ4jCQH3Efoi20D1CP97+GCdEuYEraNzx1w ==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:-3IHYZTn81IfF53y-GrM0fx6TCo1bmrdVWm8NMOxh8KBoNsZ92BmKg> <xme:-3IHYSyuTpBSgJ4f4Gsg_N_aLLTGvjp-XqPGxoXF7qPAE2sZjpVsOQKsUh4KURVeZ OPPrO2hjUIKYbA0bF8>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvtddriedugdeigecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepofgfggfkjghffffhvffutgesthdtre dtreerjeenucfhrhhomhepfdforghrthhinhcuvfhhohhmshhonhdfuceomhhtsehlohif vghnthhrohhphidrnhgvtheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepheefteduudduhedtkefhvd fhteelffdujeegjeffheffveekudeigfeuveekfeelnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgep tdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepmhhtsehlohifvghnthhrohhphidrnhgvth
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:-3IHYe0I7NEPWCi-wDXoECvdQPLsP6KuH1YT8_wR-QTejBoLbWHvVw> <xmx:-3IHYRAn5HamS-TzoC4LD_XevQ9CSaP_vMUbHQ7oVloN91IiNvdl2Q> <xmx:-3IHYSjGQLlElRx67nbQrwhPgaWAmJmYcoFjNM57msSDmXcRKqqqbg> <xmx:_HIHYdsw-h6f4YxSIQbv47XhqL9lgLTIxgALSFWP4HMiTrZoZ_-qAQ>
Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 57E533C0471; Mon, 2 Aug 2021 00:22:19 -0400 (EDT)
X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface
User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.5.0-alpha0-545-g7a4eea542e-fm-20210727.001-g7a4eea54
Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <8b2ac283-614e-40d2-b6bf-5e67d5324aaa@www.fastmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CABcZeBNRZsyjd-M_hKOwxdqY=Y7oZs5-d4waqPHb9gO-GJNV+Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABcZeBNRZsyjd-M_hKOwxdqY=Y7oZs5-d4waqPHb9gO-GJNV+Q@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2021 14:21:59 +1000
From: Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net>
To: dns-privacy@ietf.org
Content-Type: text/plain
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dns-privacy/DFIX4v7xT9Cd13wE4BlHJYeYNxM>
Subject: Re: [dns-privacy] Intermediate proposal (what I was saying at the mic)
X-BeenThere: dns-privacy@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Addition of privacy to the DNS protocol <dns-privacy.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dns-privacy>, <mailto:dns-privacy-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dns-privacy/>
List-Post: <mailto:dns-privacy@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dns-privacy-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dns-privacy>, <mailto:dns-privacy-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2021 04:22:27 -0000

On Fri, Jul 30, 2021, at 06:08, Eric Rescorla wrote:
> - Recursives can attempt to connect to any authoritative by probing
>   with DoT/DoQ [0]. In this case, they should cleanly fall back to
>   Do53 on connect failure and not validate the credential (whether
>   WebPKI or DANE) This allows authoritatives to just turn on TLS
>   without risk.

I assume that your MUST NOT validate here only exists because of the combination of:

1.  Us not being able to decide between Web PKI and DANE; and

2.  The potential for an unauthenticated mode.

If we decided on a single answer for the first and in the negative for the second, would that make authentication viable?  Or is the opportunism a feature?

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email