IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [dns-privacy] DoH vs DoT at IMC 2019

Puneet Sood <puneets@google.com> Mon, 23 September 2019 14:59 UTC

Return-Path: <puneets@google.com>
X-Original-To: dns-privacy@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dns-privacy@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CE4D12006D for <dns-privacy@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 23 Sep 2019 07:59:00 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -17.501
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, ENV_AND_HDR_SPF_MATCH=-0.5, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kABNnNm4rMLM for <dns-privacy@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 23 Sep 2019 07:58:57 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-vk1-xa33.google.com (mail-vk1-xa33.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::a33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 32989120013 for <dns-privacy@ietf.org>; Mon, 23 Sep 2019 07:58:57 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-vk1-xa33.google.com with SMTP id d66so3035174vka.2 for <dns-privacy@ietf.org>; Mon, 23 Sep 2019 07:58:57 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=7Ohvnx746YDKG5SOUW+u6NsOFDV9l6MeESCayFdMk84=; b=aHbUtcY9CFpv71cTKc+v5CE/oDxoZ+A2hGjMS42lrpTMWoL10Q7Z0wcZ4c8ZFNZosq BoZzNWNtFY7z1tGsOjY/BKLWdeO6tI/LpMmUJFEVplr5+qC8m19EFcZ3P/xD8T145Rrz DFHBsye69wTGjIe5lZ1AeQzGDZoDSQNu3ZW+KXQ3dO52LLd9aR36Km2wOXKpu+ysHOAH b0WjGIYKmF0R9U0DXY5jmw9dQ76D0BpRaSfYhtFh01diSV7aK2L9rtrOpLImdgQiUoc5 ZiO/85f+fHwUMvY5qOv81zjzYeGZVwVDCgc/DVHRKiBeVbs60z5sHZvkUn0EqH4TnV+V tASQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=7Ohvnx746YDKG5SOUW+u6NsOFDV9l6MeESCayFdMk84=; b=McxA6l7/7biIGnoHa0yaISQYvNqoEULYIsftfW0cdXUxauP3Zco/OuO4tw2lAGm3OW FDHabZlHA1fhN+EMuzn9eqHiuGyhlqdoIVG5cMuOJ48iP79qJSZcyEDO3FQ5vbbwvBG2 3pQN32ND+aiIJJAFulP6HS9vsI3asO/audTPuqbmyeOD0KDX1I3JA5CxjBACeUtitfxJ /DGfsWFIo8vfgG9Cl8ZgLR1btfXMxDT4UOJ1Zz1bbkgX0v1/wwI69UmyI2LTgMIVdmf5 kmvA2HVw6nkuVOlphdtpIiPS3OXa9BQSEI+Dk1KEV+QmjIot/FspblaIqbLlBI5bZNGW feKA==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAW9mOSo37WrIt5J05y8sYmhGuqY13xOUyBYJfyux63Sayno9FMp bD3utxVB89/5ze+lkscmK/xqoKra2ZW5kOOZzDv89E/o
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwxNvLaE5GsFwAcn1WlOLpScmKfqt5t7lY8ypOaWHqdgq0J56kZN7o5yGpF9VKH8qTZitDwrNHsA80pVfLjnNk=
X-Received: by 2002:a1f:b987:: with SMTP id j129mr180448vkf.27.1569250735709; Mon, 23 Sep 2019 07:58:55 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <7A5A1175-1AEB-4A04-BC75-169BD9A321FD@qmul.ac.uk> <CAChr6SzfRJC6rUjO0qgDT_JaFSqRZs9dR8Q3G85gh+14wH8Yuw@mail.gmail.com> <1ba0ac24-95ff-6d7b-b9bc-01a6c4b130c9@nic.cz>
In-Reply-To: <1ba0ac24-95ff-6d7b-b9bc-01a6c4b130c9@nic.cz>
From: Puneet Sood <puneets@google.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2019 10:58:44 -0400
Message-ID: <CA+9_gVuVabDKodTS8aCZ7O9ojs117aL4x2aFA3jQbdQEvhtRvA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Petr Špaček <petr.spacek@nic.cz>
Cc: dns-privacy@ietf.org
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dns-privacy/bpsRyy4_DfgQkefz4cWQsWKKK_U>
Subject: Re: [dns-privacy] DoH vs DoT at IMC 2019
X-BeenThere: dns-privacy@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: <dns-privacy.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dns-privacy>, <mailto:dns-privacy-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dns-privacy/>
List-Post: <mailto:dns-privacy@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dns-privacy-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dns-privacy>, <mailto:dns-privacy-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2019 14:59:01 -0000

On Thu, Sep 12, 2019 at 4:58 AM Petr Špaček <petr.spacek@nic.cz> wrote:
>
> On 12. 09. 19 7:37, Rob Sayre wrote:
> > On Wed, Sep 11, 2019 at 2:53 AM Timm Boettger <timm.boettger@qmul.ac.uk <mailto:timm.boettger@qmul.ac.uk>> wrote:
> >
> >     Hi all,
> >
> >     Rob Sayre has pointed me to this thread. I am an author of the linked paper...
> >
> >     He has pointed out some confusing and outdated information in the paper, that I would like to clarify...
> >
> >
> > Let me further clarify: I thought these were minor corrections, and I didn't want these small flaws to undermine a great point the paper made in its Section 3:
> >
> > "Implementing out-of-order delivery via TLS is akin to (re-)implementing the stream multiplexing part of SCTP, QUIC or HTTP/2.0."
>
> It should be noted that out-of-order query processing is in no way unique to TLS, it is the same for TCP (see RFC 5966 section 6).

The Google Public DNS DoT implementation supports out-of-order
responses so I am surprised that your experiment found that only
CloudFlare's implementation supports out-of-order delivery. Maybe this
is changed in the updated version of your report.

-Puneet



>
> It should also be noted that Knot Resolver (which I'm working on), BIND and also modern versions of Unbound _do_ support out-of-order query processing so the point above it moot. (I'm not sure about PowerDNS but I would be surprised if it did not have out-of-order processing support as well.)
>
> Missing support on a particular service is not caused by lack of implementations in servers, maybe it is a problem "added" by layers on top.
>
> Petr Špaček  @  CZ.NIC
>
> _______________________________________________
> dns-privacy mailing list
> dns-privacy@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dns-privacy

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email