Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] root crud, Possible alt-tld last call?

John R Levine <johnl@taugh.com> Tue, 25 October 2022 22:56 UTC

Return-Path: <johnl@taugh.com>
X-Original-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79553C14F730 for <dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 25 Oct 2022 15:56:35 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -7.107
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.107 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=iecc.com header.b=TkUl+4R+; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=taugh.com header.b=iXKetn1d
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EEISJjgJd7JW for <dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 25 Oct 2022 15:56:30 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 35CE1C14CE2A for <dnsop@ietf.org>; Tue, 25 Oct 2022 15:56:29 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (qmail 33675 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2022 22:56:26 -0000
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type; s=8388.6358699a.k2210; bh=T1rsB18VR3qTa5l+Hxwwhw+O8QUpliWS+sPD/5+LXxI=; b=TkUl+4R+0g+SA9BdJHZonzzf753wNvVJzQHzGfIThc4cwHEqHBWb4KPIT2CSmzhcaT9UV/ZFX+fTinqXY1/4v8ZE327M1L1HawLY2cmrSbEXGoLTiR2PuGJZYN9BMrCEN5os4ED3ChAvuh9ryAkwj9g0pfdDudvHW2O4IXni7VdKLYbezVvBOpUYMDcpOW5xBRYp6JtgWZ+2Lm1OYnSiIfHwKH/keaGHNUYbDhI784bAA2TQRJAsGMZ85uJEUuzym3cNk44i+XQ0+ggeQTTH1a2o7hSQs9WrY6hy6bbkUWIQiZ3oXFKAIRCPtK+hC3BfdOKRuxzaiyzHZ7n66dorOA==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type; s=8388.6358699a.k2210; bh=T1rsB18VR3qTa5l+Hxwwhw+O8QUpliWS+sPD/5+LXxI=; b=iXKetn1dNIN7LwppBoIYAFkgmYrQKy1XT1xM6YSvob1aesndV0PrtE9+p7FwY4SFpiQuFfXOzhbSL3kVDauaFC3xpReXN07MhYQEmy8Vhv1CcfTjPoN2ICwdbDodModVVTUXYXqHbp0FRylgU/KpnOreWBVzo0ipWh4fipNuMHSrnV30NhCNvrntFF+Va9giLLLatori/tRtIX5/GVfKWt2XanbjTXQzCTbI/7lW7q9q9zmZ10X9KICDN3/Q0Iq+zAauzSfILbFVngIEMYRQ9tKG7IXfFBY5rn2gFlOIEy8v/kUa1oVUpE1kQsjDxi/vPbfi1BOsQ2FSK2xJgYYvxg==
Received: from ary.local ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTPS (TLS1.3 ECDHE-RSA AES-256-GCM AEAD) via TCP6; 25 Oct 2022 22:56:26 -0000
Received: by ary.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id B63044D42CF1; Tue, 25 Oct 2022 15:56:23 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ary.local (Postfix) with ESMTP id 328354D42CD3; Tue, 25 Oct 2022 15:56:23 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2022 15:56:23 -0700
Message-ID: <6160f0c5-7791-0960-0013-a700c7727c0a@taugh.com>
From: John R Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
To: Brian Dickson <brian.peter.dickson@gmail.com>
Cc: dnsop@ietf.org, wjhns1@hardakers.net
X-X-Sender: johnl@ary.local
In-Reply-To: <CAH1iCiqshGnzka3eFyWEMqu6BKM-A0VUsed5kZ8GT5W-hmf1mQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ybly1t4c6x6.fsf@wd.hardakers.net> <20221025213042.2EAF24D42291@ary.local> <CAH1iCiqshGnzka3eFyWEMqu6BKM-A0VUsed5kZ8GT5W-hmf1mQ@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"; format="flowed"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dnsop/Ao364h79B-PwAgCsyV8RdHqDERM>
Subject: Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] root crud, Possible alt-tld last call?
X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list <dnsop.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dnsop/>
List-Post: <mailto:dnsop@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2022 22:56:35 -0000

On Tue, 25 Oct 2022, Brian Dickson wrote:
>> I'm with you.  Considering the vast amount of junk traffic that the roots
>> get now, it's hard to imagine that .alt would add enough to care about.
>>
>> I also agree that aggressive negative result caching and local roots
>> already exist, and are as good as anything else we're going to come up
>> with. In one case, the root gets a .alt query and returns NXDOMAIN
>> which the client caches, in another it returns DNAME which the client
>> caches, and in the third the root sees nothing at all.
>>
> Slight nit:
> In the NXDOMAIN case, the resolver and client both cache the result, but
> only for a period of "negative TTL" from the root zone's SOA (likely
> measured in minutes or hours, but not days)

It's easy to check and see that it's 24 hours.  Considering the flood of 
crud that the roots already deal with, I'd think that limiting the .alt 
crud to one per day per customer would be more than adequate.

Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Taughannock Networks, Trumansburg NY
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly