Re: [DNSOP] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-dnsop-qdcount-is-one

Joe Abley <jabley@strandkip.nl> Tue, 19 March 2024 06:16 UTC

Return-Path: <jabley@strandkip.nl>
X-Original-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E710FC14F6AF for <dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Mar 2024 23:16:02 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.104
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.104 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=strandkip.nl
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ufblegsRAaGk for <dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 18 Mar 2024 23:15:59 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from qs51p00im-qukt01080301.me.com (qs51p00im-qukt01080301.me.com [17.57.155.20]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0D396C14F69D for <dnsop@ietf.org>; Mon, 18 Mar 2024 23:15:59 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=strandkip.nl; s=sig1; t=1710828958; bh=yrcm6vjrH5NnibTeLfHww4DYFQSE5qS6Lh4j/gDte4g=; h=Content-Type:From:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:Message-Id:To; b=Dsohc+xmquYW50daI6ZrUqXSLekoUxqm9vcgf12vhE3K4saAaAXnwyIJDziScIFiZ zC5kx6enxRJ9QcKqGwL6RU5rsdtNShRFOcMRo+NYK30VYDD7i2CuB5U0mQrTpqDcnE RB2TxtjI558ZkWwlQcL+iYfjPmQFY9GOhDfFAxpqBQ3mn4BYwFW3ID/nyhz8cQN7gh FpmysXAxLzivmsDGZL7k6gI2zIn0ed2eWReDBwEsPa6P717eMmcbSuPdF5IfxAQ1LS cv4S6V7SYF72gVUXahNm/9CTnhozu8S8R1/dxlo2P8niCdSCi6a6A/zvxmvTuwRH7L kJGOVuHALtoEA==
Received: from smtpclient.apple (qs51p00im-dlb-asmtp-mailmevip.me.com [17.57.155.28]) by qs51p00im-qukt01080301.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 147665F0025C; Tue, 19 Mar 2024 06:15:56 +0000 (UTC)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
From: Joe Abley <jabley@strandkip.nl>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2024 07:15:44 +0100
Message-Id: <26ED9952-9635-443F-A0E2-3058EBA429A3@strandkip.nl>
References: <CACJ6M166X6jk1yhBgq1SJL_SPkifKXCSr7cy9T_HNykkztk77A@mail.gmail.com>
Cc: IETF DNSOP WG <dnsop@ietf.org>, dnsop-chairs@ietf.org
In-Reply-To: <CACJ6M166X6jk1yhBgq1SJL_SPkifKXCSr7cy9T_HNykkztk77A@mail.gmail.com>
To: Chris Box <chris.box.ietf@gmail.com>
X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (21E219)
X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: Xj81yxpgTyaK--5FnuNsSByV8VubaKp9
X-Proofpoint-GUID: Xj81yxpgTyaK--5FnuNsSByV8VubaKp9
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.272,Aquarius:18.0.1011,Hydra:6.0.619,FMLib:17.11.176.26 definitions=2024-03-18_12,2024-03-18_03,2023-05-22_02
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 bulkscore=0 phishscore=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxlogscore=926 adultscore=0 clxscore=1030 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.19.0-2308100000 definitions=main-2403190047
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dnsop/L_lyM2wzeAWBBmjOHDjBNMtk6YQ>
Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Working Group Last Call for draft-ietf-dnsop-qdcount-is-one
X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list <dnsop.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dnsop/>
List-Post: <mailto:dnsop@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2024 06:16:03 -0000

Hi Chris,

Thanks for the review!

On 19 Mar 2024, at 03:28, Chris Box <chris.box.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:

> It is a little cart-before-horse in having the reasoning occur after the conclusion. But I can see the benefit in having a very clear statement up front in the document. Some people only read the beginning.

The document was changed to be like this because the working group found the survey of current standards to be a bit of a distraction from the advice. The purpose is after all to clarify the standards, not to enjoy a voyage through them. 

> I have one suggestion for improvement, which you can modify or ignore as you wish. Some people only read the title, particularly if they see it as part of a citation. And if that's all you see, it's not a clear message at all. "In the DNS, QDCOUNT is (usually) One" tells me nothing I don't already know. Yes it is usually one. However if you were to change the title to something like "In DNS queries, QDCOUNT must be <= 1" then I learn all I need to know from simply the title. To me, this is a win.

Personally I think we do need people to read a little bit beyond the title if they are going to extract useful meaning from the document. If we accept that to be a reasonable goal then perhaps having a title that seems slightly intriguing is better than a title that is 100% spoiler.


Joe