Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tld-00.txt> (The .onion Special-Use Domain Name) to Proposed Standard
Jacob Appelbaum <jacob@appelbaum.net> Fri, 07 August 2015 16:21 UTC
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References: <20150714192438.1138.96059.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <D1EA295A.DFA3%edward.lewis@icann.org> <55C4C0DA.8070502@w3.org> <D1EA43FA.DFB8%edward.lewis@icann.org>
Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2015 16:20:15 +0000
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From: Jacob Appelbaum <jacob@appelbaum.net>
To: Edward Lewis <edward.lewis@icann.org>
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Cc: "dnsop@ietf.org" <dnsop@ietf.org>, Wendy Seltzer <wseltzer@w3.org>, "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tld-00.txt> (The .onion Special-Use Domain Name) to Proposed Standard
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On 8/7/15, Edward Lewis <edward.lewis@icann.org> wrote: > On 8/7/15, 10:29, "DNSOP on behalf of Wendy Seltzer" > <dnsop-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of wseltzer@w3.org> wrote: > >>You might find https://spec.torproject.org/ helpful as a listing of >>various tor specs and design documents, if you prefer that to a git >>repository. > > That's the site I've been using. > What do you specifically wish that it had? Doesn't the git repository provide you with specific versioned hashes for any given document? > >> >>While Tor has not necessarily used IETF conventions, the project has >>long been committed to public documentation of its design and protocol >>choices. Tor distinguishes between "proposals," not yet implemented, and >>specs.[1] > > It's fine to "not use IETF conventions". (One of my ratholes is that I > find researching IETF documents rather frustrating - just to underscore I > am not saying Tor's documentation is deficient compared to IETF standards.) > > Still, the documents I have access to do not give me a deep enough sense > of, well, why the names are different from DNS domain names. I presume > they are from the email discussion, but what I am reading in the documents > - and I stress "reading in the documents" meaning that might be the gap - > doesn't give me enough background. This is clearly documented in the specifications - including the lookup process and how the .onion names are constructed. I'm really confused as to how your question of "why the names are different from DNS domain names" isn't answered by Tor's rend-spec? Should we make an explicit reference to Zooko's triangle or something? o_0 > > As far as stability of the documents, referring to a document by URL only > (which is accepted in IETF documents at times) isn't generally accepted. > I admit this is a bit of a red herring point, because this can be changed, > but if there were other means to refer to the document in a reference > citation, it would help. > Do you mean to suggest that https://spec.torproject.org/rend-spec isn't enough? Wouldn't https://gitweb.torproject.org/torspec.git/tree/rend-spec.txt?id=69f0faec555d3c7d627aa1de73dafee8f8d63f84 be specific enough? > E.g., randomly typing a four digit RFC number: > > http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7392.txt > > vs. > > Dutta, P., Bocci, M., and L. Martini, "Explicit Path Routing for Dynamic > Multi-Segment Pseudowires", RFC 7392, DOI 10.17487/RFC7392, December 2014, > <http://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc7392>. > > > That is, full title, RFC document identity, date and authors/editors (not > in that order). > The git repo shows authorship down to the line number as well. Documents not specifically authored by named persons or teams are authored by the individuals in the git commit and/or the Tor Project inc., I believe. > PS - I don't mean to harp on this. I'd hoped to have someone send me > links to other documents because I want to learn more about the names in > ".onion" and other identifiers in Tor. > Please see: https://gitweb.torproject.org/torspec.git/tree/rend-spec.txt?id=69f0faec555d3c7d627aa1de73dafee8f8d63f84 As well as: https://gitweb.torproject.org/torspec.git/tree/proposals/155-four-hidden-service-improvements.txt?id=69f0faec555d3c7d627aa1de73dafee8f8d63f84 https://gitweb.torproject.org/torspec.git/tree/path-spec.txt?id=69f0faec555d3c7d627aa1de73dafee8f8d63f84#n36 https://gitweb.torproject.org/torspec.git/tree/address-spec.txt?id=69f0faec555d3c7d627aa1de73dafee8f8d63f84#n48 And more generally: https://gitweb.torproject.org/torspec.git/tree/glossary.txt?id=69f0faec555d3c7d627aa1de73dafee8f8d63f84 https://gitweb.torproject.org/torspec.git/tree/proposals?id=69f0faec555d3c7d627aa1de73dafee8f8d63f84 Specific implementations are probably also useful. Tor's C implementation and Orchid (Java Tor implementation) are probably easy enough to study. Happy to answer other questions as well... All the best, Jacob
- [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tld-00… The IESG
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Ted Hardie
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… David Conrad
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Patrik Fältström
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Bob Harold
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… hellekin
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… hellekin
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Hugo Maxwell Connery
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Richard Barnes
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… John Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… David Conrad
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… hellekin
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Rubens Kuhl
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Francisco Obispo
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Francisco Obispo
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Francisco Obispo
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Francisco Obispo
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Joe Hildebrand
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… hellekin
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Hugo Maxwell Connery
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… hellekin
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Tom Ritter
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Richard Barnes
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… David Conrad
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… David Conrad
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… David Conrad
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Tim Wicinski
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… joel jaeggli
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… David Conrad
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… hellekin
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Joseph Lorenzo Hall
- Re: [DNSOP] Stability of identifiers (Was: Last C… joel jaeggli
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… joel jaeggli
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… joel jaeggli
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Hugo Maxwell Connery
- [DNSOP] Stability of identifiers (Was: Last Call:… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Eliot Lear
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Stephane Bortzmeyer
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… David Conrad
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… David Conrad
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Richard Barnes
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… hellekin
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Hugo Maxwell Connery
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… hellekin
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Eliot Lear
- [DNSOP] namespace control (was Re: Last Call: <dr… David Conrad
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… hellekin
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… hellekin
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Francisco Obispo
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Rubens Kuhl
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… hellekin
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Rubens Kuhl
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] what's in .alt, was Last Call: <draft… John Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… David Conrad
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Ted Lemon
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… John Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… joel jaeggli
- Re: [DNSOP] what's in .alt, was Last Call: <draft… Paul Vixie
- [DNSOP] what's in .alt, was Last Call: <draft-iet… Hugo Maxwell Connery
- Re: [DNSOP] what's in .alt, was Last Call: <draft… Hugo Maxwell Connery
- Re: [DNSOP] what's in .alt, was Last Call: <draft… John R Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] what's in .alt, was Last Call: <draft… Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] what's in .alt, was Last Call: <draft… John R Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] what's in .alt, was Last Call: <draft… Bob Bownes -Seiri
- Re: [DNSOP] what's in .alt, was Last Call: <draft… John R Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] what's in .alt, was Last Call: <draft… Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] what's in .alt, was Last Call: <draft… John R Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] what's in .alt, was Last Call: <draft… joel jaeggli
- Re: [DNSOP] what's in .alt, was Last Call: <draft… Hugo Maxwell Connery
- Re: [DNSOP] what's in .alt, was Last Call: <draft… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [DNSOP] what's in .alt, was Last Call: <draft… Christian Grothoff
- Re: [DNSOP] what's in .alt, was Last Call: <draft… Steve Crocker
- Re: [DNSOP] what's in .alt, was Last Call: <draft… Steve Crocker
- Re: [DNSOP] what's in .alt, was Last Call: <draft… Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] what's in .alt, was Last Call: <draft… Patrik Fältström
- Re: [DNSOP] what's in .alt, was Last Call: <draft… David Conrad
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Florian Weimer
- Re: [DNSOP] what's in .alt, was Last Call: <draft… Paul Vixie
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… David Cake
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… David Cake
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… David Cake
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… David Cake
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… David Cake
- Re: [DNSOP] what's in .alt, was Last Call: <draft… David Cake
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Eliot Lear
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… David Conrad
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Patrik Fältström
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Alec Muffett
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Eliot Lear
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… John Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… hellekin
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Bob Harold
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Ian Maddison
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… John C Klensin
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… David Cake
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Wendy Seltzer
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Chris Baker
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Edward Lewis
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Jacob Appelbaum
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Alec Muffett
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Ted Hardie
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Alec Muffett
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… hellekin
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Ted Hardie
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… John Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Alec Muffett
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Steve Crocker
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Mark Andrews
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Joe Hildebrand
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… John R Levine
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Alec Muffett
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Darcy Kevin (FCA)
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Alec Muffett
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Sam Hartman
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Darcy Kevin (FCA)
- Re: [DNSOP] Last Call: <draft-ietf-dnsop-onion-tl… Roy T. Fielding