Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] Re: New draft for consideration:

Matthew Pounsett <> Sun, 24 March 2019 15:59 UTC

Return-Path: <>
Received: from localhost (localhost []) by (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62EC7126C15 for <>; Sun, 24 Mar 2019 08:59:13 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.899
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key)
Received: from ([]) by localhost ( []) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hWeKtPWcy-oP for <>; Sun, 24 Mar 2019 08:59:11 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ( [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::12e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B204012423B for <>; Sun, 24 Mar 2019 08:59:11 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by with SMTP id z126so10502210itd.5 for <>; Sun, 24 Mar 2019 08:59:11 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=h5VJMbm3VHgqxjpCPnEajf2dszYtT2+RPUwc+w6xmO8=; b=i+7ogM+ZTjuTPqGL5zj3P4Pbin0AcdGezcfmJqxdWja1qyIV5RTp0g44G3XWX5nQWi ile7Q5LO29Y1BUA4ndwrbrqrjG37oVxGciHK7nJ/wY/OFiYKmdmn9jUq9xlVINmRez50 MF47Y1SksTq+OEAYHUmAkHp0o2VyehlXGooTBoxqki8Hhl27W1DFQwBHqRkRn62UP3Hl ynOQ14KpIxD0pWflZhZ6MfzOkE8kbfU9nw3t5pe4ziMcOi94u3SFYR3qoQkANSZWpMrt vUZoK3vM6OlTGe1fd1bct0fyjcRAEXWoGv3dtmBhPjX4iya2pZegCoNKcW+eXdHmyqXG 0TUw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=h5VJMbm3VHgqxjpCPnEajf2dszYtT2+RPUwc+w6xmO8=; b=RgLfEa3SZTYdGJxcxs+26SNpwQLKvlTp2fy24riZkzwVQCb2mt9ZTTSNSw5zw3MzfC i6NWqbgUsSJgqiqLrR4ZRwgRaus9mzCxtPVQ8NgF8oHPmjheOqIYRj2fkgF9urSQ3wyt vDBtwpZ9x5O/H4c1Uj73Ni98CR5aF6e3TaTIdK+LLxYRzmSTCWkHhjbbxDiAOPEY+WWu 4+5Dz0ewtqqaKsa/E+nYMfEaepLI9k9v4vPXShf4aoakUbuumKKmpfaoj4ArhalWnLvP 4Rm2AuN3Gzl3poZUosZgXea7ez82IScSTLsmYz/L4mgyuB4z3dHOO19rkF5GvKnENjqd /tPA==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUIhmM2vD+oJtP2vuOSohqdwpfmPElmR5ziCpcar4hiqfzfqk0G yz4cgioqU4z1BY+BTINXfOg3T6ph+eoDq4AiNUYKmg==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyDkxwm2zjXAXT65RdkWnXmpWIT7VBvt40KACEcm9DktOn4kG6A8EoyUqbDGgS37bZhC2iJsFl2IE5GPxyllLg=
X-Received: by 2002:a05:660c:a18:: with SMTP id e24mr8180637itk.129.1553443150941; Sun, 24 Mar 2019 08:59:10 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <> <> <>
In-Reply-To: <>
From: Matthew Pounsett <>
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2019 16:59:00 +0100
Message-ID: <>
To: Paul Hoffman <>
Cc: bert hubert <>, dnsop <>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000030ecac0584d92bed"
Archived-At: <>
Subject: Re: [DNSOP] [Ext] Re: New draft for consideration:
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list <>
List-Unsubscribe: <>, <>
List-Archive: <>
List-Post: <>
List-Help: <>
List-Subscribe: <>, <>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2019 15:59:14 -0000

On Sun, 24 Mar 2019 at 11:46, Paul Hoffman <> wrote:

> > I'm also not too hot for conflating "user consciously changes
> > /etc/resolv.conf or equivalent" with "application makes the choice for
> the
> > user".
> The split here is more "someone changes from traditional without the user
> knowing, when the user cares". If you have a better way to express that,
> that would be great.
> > Perhaps we should talk about 'Per-application stubs'? Because this is the
> > nub.
> Maybe, but I'm hesitant to make the break that way because some
> applications' stubs use the traditional resolver, others don't. I would be
> hesitant to conflate those two.

I don't think the current wording for DaO expresses the same point that
you've made here.  In particular, mentioning that DaO might refer to a user
modifying /etc/resolv.conf is inconsistent with the intent that DaO is
sending queries somewhere other than where the traditional configuration
says.  /etc/resolv.conf (and its equivalents in non-unix OSes) *are* the
traditional place to configure that.  Whatever that file says, I think any
resolver that is consulting that file to find its upstreams is doing DaT.

How about:
   DaO: DNS resolution between a stub resolver and a recursive resolver that
   differs from the recursive resolver configured in the traditional
   location(s) for a system.  DaO can be configured by a user changing
where a
   stub resolver gets its list of recursive servers, or an application
   RDoT or DoH to a resolver that is not the same as the resolver configured
   in the traditional location for the operating system.