Re: [Dtls-iot] dice wg future work... or time to declare victory?

Shahid Raza <periodic@live.com> Mon, 26 October 2015 13:30 UTC

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From: Shahid Raza <periodic@live.com>
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Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 14:30:39 +0100
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To: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
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Cc: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>, Hannes Tschofenig <hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net>, "Kumar, Sandeep" <sandeep.kumar@philips.com>, "dtls-iot@ietf.org" <dtls-iot@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] dice wg future work... or time to declare victory?
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Going thoroughly (once again) through all the DICE emails discussing the group communication, I can clearly see that the group communication work had most valid criticism and some fake criticism (unfortunately more loud). There is a new draft (draft-tiloca-dice-secure-groupcomm-00) that carefully addresses the valid criticism and provides detailed solutions. 
I will vote for keeping the DICE active with new energy and finish the charter and declare victory.

/Shahid


> On 26 Oct 2015, at 13:59, Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>; wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On 26/10/15 12:55, Kumar, Sandeep wrote:
>> I do have to say that Zach and Dorothy did spend quite some effort
>> trying to get DICE on track even with their growing responsibilities
>> outside IETF. Thanks to both!  However DICE was just taken hostage by
>> a few distractors who even till today haven't provided any
>> alternative practical solutions. It sure is a "victory" for the
>> distractors, not for anyone here who wanted to solve a real world
>> problem in a practical way.
> 
> I think the above is inappropriate. There were and are valid technical
> criticisms of what was the planned work. Some who initially supported
> that planned work were convinced by those criticisms. That does include
> me fwiw, but I'm far from alone. Secure group communication as was
> envisaged by our charter just doesn't turn out to work. That's a pity,
> but a reality.
> 
> S.
> 
> 
>> 
>> When we started DICE, there were quite some good ideas on further
>> improving IoT security with just DTLS (remember DTLS-relay). Either
>> we need more energy and guidance (also from the chairs) or accept
>> that these kind of stuff will be standardized outside IETF. The
>> latter is a sad conclusion of closing DICE.
>> 
>> Sandeep
>> 
>>> -----Original Message----- From: dtls-iot
>>> [mailto:dtls-iot-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Shahid Raza Sent:
>>> Monday, October 26, 2015 12:44 PM To: Carsten Bormann
>>> <cabo@tzi.org>; Cc: Hannes Tschofenig <hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net>;;
>>> dtls-iot@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Dtls-iot] dice wg future work... or
>>> time to declare victory?
>>> 
>>> I also think we are not done with the DICE charter. To complete the
>>> work, I would prefer current chairs but will not mind new chair(s)
>>> if the group is closing only because of the unavailability of the
>>> current chairs.
>>> 
>>> Regards Shahid
>>> 
>>>> On 26 Oct 2015, at 12:30, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>; wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Let's close the group and cover group communication in the ACE 
>>>>> working group instead.
>>>> 
>>>> I'm not sure that ACE is the right WG for this, we don't do
>>>> comsec there (we need it, but import it from elsewhere).
>>>> 
>>>> (COSE might be the right WG, but that is rather focused on one 
>>>> technology.)
>>>> 
>>>> One other DICE thing that is still open is DTLS-over-SMS.  No
>>>> idea whether we have the energy to finish this, but I seem to
>>>> remember it is mostly done.
>>>> 
>>>> Grüße, Carsten
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________ dtls-iot mailing
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>>> 
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>> 
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