Re: [Edm] Please review draft-iab-use-it-or-lose-it-01

Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de> Mon, 19 July 2021 19:31 UTC

Return-Path: <eckert@i4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
X-Original-To: edm@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: edm@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AE393A3CB2 for <edm@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 19 Jul 2021 12:31:53 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.117
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.117 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dHKzAG1Q5fQP for <edm@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 19 Jul 2021 12:31:49 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 41D323A3CB3 for <edm@iab.org>; Mon, 19 Jul 2021 12:31:49 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:51]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id B08C7548056; Mon, 19 Jul 2021 21:31:42 +0200 (CEST)
Received: by faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id A3C774E7AB8; Mon, 19 Jul 2021 21:31:42 +0200 (CEST)
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 21:31:42 +0200
From: Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>
To: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
Cc: Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net>, edm@iab.org
Message-ID: <20210719193142.GH24216@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
References: <162626887655.14379.5438309391409890693@ietfa.amsl.com> <80F3F8A2-2C3C-4DE8-BD1D-07842F5B2F89@apple.com> <20210715154649.GD24216@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <5149e82e-4f98-411b-9e34-27f243352b95@www.fastmail.com> <a2a718ba-7231-449f-8a55-fcc6a7823d59@www.fastmail.com> <20210716231731.GR24216@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <01832870-dfe9-42c8-b10f-d22169b94096@www.fastmail.com> <20210719173735.GC24216@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <FD3C633A-99C6-436D-A99D-280323061934@gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
In-Reply-To: <FD3C633A-99C6-436D-A99D-280323061934@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/edm/21szvLAnIYDqGo4ircsg_U01mv4>
Subject: Re: [Edm] Please review draft-iab-use-it-or-lose-it-01
X-BeenThere: edm@iab.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Evolvability, Deployability, & Maintainability \(Proposed\) Program" <edm.iab.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.iab.org/mailman/options/edm>, <mailto:edm-request@iab.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/edm/>
List-Post: <mailto:edm@iab.org>
List-Help: <mailto:edm-request@iab.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.iab.org/mailman/listinfo/edm>, <mailto:edm-request@iab.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 19:31:54 -0000

On Mon, Jul 19, 2021 at 06:42:57PM +0100, Stewart Bryant wrote:
> 
> 
> > On 19 Jul 2021, at 18:37, Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de> wrote:
> > 
> >  "IP's version field was
> >   rendered useless when encapsulated over Ethernet, requring a new
> >   ethertype with IPv6 [RFC2462], due in part to layer 2 devices making
> >   version-independent assumptions about the structure of the IPv4
> >   header.”

> If vendors with a large footprint ignore standards all bets are off.
> The same applies to open source but there is even less pressure for them to abide by the standards.

I think the problem is less "ignoring standards" but implementation bugs
by developers implementation fix and release latency and deployment latency
of operators.

That is all business as usual and overwhelming, so i am not sure one would
need to talk about obnoxious behavior, like knowingly "ignoring" stuff.

Cheers
    toerless