[Emu] Re: WGLC for draft-ietf-emu-pqc-eapaka and draft-ietf-emu-hybrid-pqc-eapaka

John Mattsson <john.mattsson@ericsson.com> Tue, 21 July 2026 06:19 UTC

Return-Path: <john.mattsson@ericsson.com>
X-Original-To: emu@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: emu@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 578D011B087B2 for <emu@mail2.ietf.org>; Mon, 20 Jul 2026 23:19:30 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=ietf.org; s=ietf1; t=1784614770; bh=rshqd3/HQuy74htOXbqSNmNLu8HkLTXNhmxe53mcyZA=; h=From:To:Subject:Date; b=aXYFmzQtqjP+UhXJNNeEm/4m71PMeno3X+Nih32H+EwePrdx/IYyAapU5L5NVpYHC oWJ5Y8FS6xDOrOZ+hHcoFCX/RYl3x89BOp4xC/Lo/QdOMbXRljukthBDmmmtDXB+aM FV1N44SDrVBNUdFRW4tGh2otC89pj9OaYqSHvxe8=
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.096
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: mail2.ietf.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NRzgIHR9ZYrh for <emu@mail2.ietf.org>; Mon, 20 Jul 2026 23:19:29 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from PA4PR04CU001.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-francecentralazon11013015.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.162.15]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-384) server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B41AC11B087AB for <emu@ietf.org>; Mon, 20 Jul 2026 23:19:29 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector10001; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=EnAH+AQQvP8l3JlfthogEeLTbuP98zKw1X53mw6i195UfRemcnq0kK8UhShRZ73WFrkwq/chshbhFw7EP9IJOFNtRyveXa/PtQ55CoCpg4iGI3lXtd4rnq3DCDxASe95E87WaJZGZs64oHL1pq3zGp9nM25sPxaMDLkaiWtx53WsuZ46S+c02qi7nb2TDIZADhJBYQ5gxJtAOiel0rzMDYKrxYjZ+vA7xRSc8T/Vlu8KscX94WkWlBbKPXQQh+HCU6pwEbUoUMCmhzC/mS87mh76DCBCNT1dKB6N3UAgSr7ZZRBhpiQ8SGOY9Ssek4IQblakZRUBUq1a3UKbpeQSWg==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector10001; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=gkyBPbQwzrAYVGdZUKjQpQucDiPMrCZmQtfSQxskg58=; b=gsTuyQ9/EONYq5r6bFNNh1p+o61YVKEu3abH87Qe9WlG7+0jJccbLs4Br85cehQ67sYwq5WrjViJZNeUbbSy4CPWSKIFGWvy8OcivmdvcjQbH7vXgoPEOmyHwzm5BzsK4WL3J8Z8TVRqUvAPbAtQD4gjlHzUX99qYXqDTII1Pb0yVwSa9wMM0quQi3Y8TAVoLkwRNVXI7yCDRHBAJ2iNcLktZs9wFY6jlK7nzih6TZxayFVKFUfVKnfz0QGCqp7nfKiyZqrlNv3OgWUGP/7rzwyScQ51Sk6f/up7SmM1/VJFOxG7kVX89p4ycjjPFF7kPi6HjGDP9ZjXNJRcvNf8Eg==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=ericsson.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=ericsson.com; dkim=pass header.d=ericsson.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ericsson.com; s=selector2; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=gkyBPbQwzrAYVGdZUKjQpQucDiPMrCZmQtfSQxskg58=; b=FGD6joUOvmtH/m9AIKqjYLRG61J9ogpwMuTFHNPais2TNRtAbD+CqD2bxtTeanx2+GJ6x/eeWx2KVQzXjRpG2c1GbcvOxiJNJRodr57e+Nla24vn6zA29nyF3bQvnS7rxfCa1Og8MEAgXBE+kMVvomw64C/RxcUT43RhqjzUcoQhu3WSlc0cy+AbsnFJ/fv/cJfZgZ044R85rfnAmSxVC/hn/69hAQPr10ZhLaS4jKX52f69YsTX5x97jTNZWwZx0oCdxOemw/AJ35osoQKzvHRUiZfCNnmQRcC+4hWDy0+gODNCA1i4R8jjUe36pnNpnE8myN1v7fXDVUHWf+lSog==
Received: from AS4PR07MB8825.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:4f3::15) by PA4PR07MB7405.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:102:cb::20) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.21.245.10; Tue, 21 Jul 2026 06:19:21 +0000
Received: from AS4PR07MB8825.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::11a4:5f37:fa92:f174]) by AS4PR07MB8825.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::11a4:5f37:fa92:f174%6]) with mapi id 15.21.0245.009; Tue, 21 Jul 2026 06:19:21 +0000
From: John Mattsson <john.mattsson@ericsson.com>
To: Peter Yee <peter@akayla.com>, "emu@ietf.org" <emu@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Emu] Re: WGLC for draft-ietf-emu-pqc-eapaka and draft-ietf-emu-hybrid-pqc-eapaka
Thread-Index: AQHdGNhO/pM/GWKkuU2KvwYP3wcwTg==
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2026 06:19:21 +0000
Message-ID: <AS4PR07MB8825F0E6FB028FA4AD588D1E89C22@AS4PR07MB8825.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-GB
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-ms-reactions: allow
authentication-results: dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dmarc=none action=none header.from=ericsson.com;
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AS4PR07MB8825:EE_|PA4PR07MB7405:EE_
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 2bd4f02b-09f1-4691-e1d1-08dee6f000d0
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;ARA:13230040|1800799024|366016|23010399003|376014|18002099003|8096899003|38070700021|10067099003|56012099006|11063799006|5023799004;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255;CTRY:;LANG:en;SCL:1;SRV:;IPV:NLI;SFV:NSPM;H:AS4PR07MB8825.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com;PTR:;CAT:NONE;SFS:(13230040)(1800799024)(366016)(23010399003)(376014)(18002099003)(8096899003)(38070700021)(10067099003)(56012099006)(11063799006)(5023799004);DIR:OUT;SFP:1101;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: 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
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_AS4PR07MB8825F0E6FB028FA4AD588D1E89C22AS4PR07MB8825eurp_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AS4PR07MB8825.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 2bd4f02b-09f1-4691-e1d1-08dee6f000d0
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 21 Jul 2026 06:19:21.3078 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: BvD6nM2yLsSglVu6bJHrBNSbWUoEVI2sHuJ44DG8kGbq4rQbnMjHDsGPUI/fsV+zyGbkBK3sGBrM0IeyX3hrStWhO5EmcTHX0NBRkO/fm3U=
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: PA4PR07MB7405
Message-ID-Hash: 3ST3JKH7YVFMRI4XHZ3FXWP6X7JUYP56
X-Message-ID-Hash: 3ST3JKH7YVFMRI4XHZ3FXWP6X7JUYP56
X-MailFrom: john.mattsson@ericsson.com
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-emu.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
Subject: [Emu] Re: WGLC for draft-ietf-emu-pqc-eapaka and draft-ietf-emu-hybrid-pqc-eapaka
List-Id: "EAP Methods Update (EMU)" <emu.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/emu/0bzt2miYPBcsze0wLCgCFKfuQuU>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/emu>
List-Help: <mailto:emu-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:emu-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:emu@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:emu-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:emu-leave@ietf.org>

I made a very quick read of draft-ietf-emu-pqc-eapaka. Looks quite good to me. Some comments:

- IANA registry value collision (TBA3 used twice)

- "AT_MAC is calculated over the EAP packet exactly as transmitted on the wire"

With fragmentation there is no single "EAP packet transmitted over the wire

- "applicable to any post-quantum Key Encapsulation Mechanism (PQ-KEM)"

I think the fields are too small for Classic McEliece.

- MK_PQ_SHARED_SECRET = PRF'(IK'|CK'|ss,"EAP-AKA' FS"| Identity | ct)

This concatenates two variable-length fields (Identity and ct).  Normal cryptographic hygine would be to have a length field or a delimiter.

- "CEK: Content Encryption Key"

This term is never used.

- OLD "hereby refereed to"
  NEW "hereby referred to"

- OLD "traditional algorithms public-key algorithms"
  NEW "traditional public-key algorithms"

- "EAP-AKA prime"

This spelling is not used in RFC 9048... should maybe be discussed.

- "ML-KEMs"

I would suggest reformulate to not give the idea of several different ML-KEM

-- "in the PQ-KEM, one needs to apply Fujisaki-Okamoto [FO] transform"

I suggest removing text on FO. I think this is to low-level, and not all PQ-KEMs use the FO transform. Talking about IND-CCA2 seems enough.

- I think the encapsulation key and ciphertext sizes of the three ML-KEM variant would be good to list.

- "MAL-BIND-K-CT"

Talk about MAL-BIND-K-CT might be better suited for the security considerations.

Cheers,
John Preuß Mattsson