Re: [gaia] Remote Peering Discussion at GAIA 117

"Steven G. Huter" <sghuter@nsrc.org> Thu, 27 July 2023 21:16 UTC

Return-Path: <sghuter@nsrc.org>
X-Original-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: gaia@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11301C15107A for <gaia@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 27 Jul 2023 14:16:30 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.995
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.995 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.091, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AcH1EPVPEBHR for <gaia@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 27 Jul 2023 14:16:26 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.24]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F0753C151527 for <gaia@irtf.org>; Thu, 27 Jul 2023 14:16:25 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CA163200319; Thu, 27 Jul 2023 17:16:24 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 27 Jul 2023 17:16:24 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-type:content-type:date:date :feedback-id:feedback-id:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:sender:subject :subject:to:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; t=1690492584; x=1690578984; bh=wp8Ut1v+2U58h 16OD7p9qqwTb9Wnmzbj1XVD1PuACP0=; b=kaGI7qnnvAnk34wx264qLsKbV7EJl qI1sQufL+4V9Geb5IMkvJdtIGgaF7i3OdH8BX7/mwrWKV9O4i+5+uVfE+p3XCS7v rhAidwzK6PF/CTxTCgCM6aQNgwse/8W4FX+c2rjEgNtHKxF3JB0VG9WgZ/As2RXy En4tGTq9S7sl3bSxHrzNXRquAMMGcx01NF7zuTLeLw8C9tIo2ZoAeITpuFSNRV45 0/Wz10IJRmU4IL+ZtFe6VICwyG/dnN957W7BsJ6gXEY3g1tVob+f8StduxoGD+P7 DsG//Cu18AuNgeKgL/jYltwCm05ygaYDCRBrpOpfB44tVN/6H/YTj3JQQ==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:p97CZOKYXqyosqhbfihVOOC5cSb6enpT4pJvxTekT2qq9rodpbtJmw> <xme:p97CZGJA8JX7vSUPhwIC_ABdcimmNqwbsB5FivtIk9MB9DvWTDSTBVvxksmMWZTou G6RAqe81Q7xXXSU-gw>
X-ME-Received: <xmr:p97CZOvN2_42ZYLjnbr0EhCHgBMYeLp3p7nTHaIAH_NqRv_THGoppZU0Btd72ZVy6rc74JyS5uT9zfHHcwH0vQ>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedviedrieeggddufeefucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurheptgfkffggfgfuvfevfhfhjgesrgdtreertdefjeenucfhrhhomhepfdfuthgv vhgvnhcuifdrucfjuhhtvghrfdcuoehsghhhuhhtvghrsehnshhrtgdrohhrgheqnecugg ftrfgrthhtvghrnhepueffleejleeuudeijeeltedtjeeuleduleejkeeijeefgfdvgffg vddtleehudfgnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrh homhepshhghhhuthgvrhesnhhsrhgtrdhorhhg
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:p97CZDY7H-IPm8YHBAsQXzN_hE2CpDky0vs7ixw5ZiBOAd78lWImwg> <xmx:p97CZFZ-ivxPuWHhKTcMVitRPf8wwq6njBBa5a9Ct_MFFjgjR2mQxg> <xmx:p97CZPCqp4A65IRyt0ZD-dv1r07hbOba4RrzfbyMWLJGoVCawwKkEA> <xmx:qN7CZEnAivutYv5Xo8IUFSuT_ywqvrD17atscPOWnE6v0O5jN_qDWA>
Feedback-ID: i99a14981:Fastmail
Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Thu, 27 Jul 2023 17:16:23 -0400 (EDT)
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------UShqHCi15uq3RstUhbR3ZeJi"
Message-ID: <279d1db5-b742-5993-0607-824364f5e08a@nsrc.org>
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2023 14:16:22 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.13.0
Content-Language: en-US
To: Kurtis Heimerl <kheimerl@cs.washington.edu>, Innocent Obi <innoobi@cs.washington.edu>
Cc: gaia@irtf.org
References: <CAB+4MyRexs8Qv_2bjsH9AJurMYkH3MOUuo+veteDxnnHaGStWw@mail.gmail.com> <alpine.DEB.2.22.394.2307261648230.16538@shell.nsrc.org> <CAB+4MyTeVrFiX_N-==OKBBnHOiv+M1UJQTKaXfKCCsQ6wz-2uQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAB+4MyTQOEf4G7AiB8ZbuRtZ_5H_O1Qxettxbr9hKrrBRVX=iw@mail.gmail.com> <CAPVkqA5uZQQAF-GXmFOH8P7gBCRd3JA=yHnhge0wpOejA=-aAg@mail.gmail.com> <CAB+4MyS-QX-dn8hakQxfyk0YJC50ntwbjaxEdZMAprQNJTnhwQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: "Steven G. Huter" <sghuter@nsrc.org>
In-Reply-To: <CAB+4MyS-QX-dn8hakQxfyk0YJC50ntwbjaxEdZMAprQNJTnhwQ@mail.gmail.com>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gaia/Tsj1N90VUWdaTnAzOSCvx5pD6u4>
Subject: Re: [gaia] Remote Peering Discussion at GAIA 117
X-BeenThere: gaia@irtf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: Global Access to the Internet for All <gaia.irtf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/options/gaia>, <mailto:gaia-request@irtf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/gaia/>
List-Post: <mailto:gaia@irtf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:gaia-request@irtf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/gaia>, <mailto:gaia-request@irtf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2023 21:16:30 -0000

On 7/27/23 1:54 PM, Kurtis Heimerl wrote:
> Great link! I was struck by this: " logic is the same; remote peering 
> removes the colocation, equipment and circuit cost from the equation 
> and replaces those costs with a metered transport alternative."
>
> I assume we can develop an extension to BGP that does that without 
> obfuscating the important routing information, right?
>
> Again with the caveat of "we're sorta already doing this" that 
> underlies so much of my confusion in this space.
>
>
Hi Kurtis

How do you tell the difference (in network terms) between an ISP in 
South Asia showing up at DE-CIX Frankfurt on their own (buying an IPLC), 
versus, an ISP connecting to DE-CIX Johor Baru in Malaysia and then 
paying DE-CIX for a VRF to Frankfurt?

Both of these examples are remote peering, but two different 
implementations. For the former, the ISP knows what occurs with their 
10Gbps of capacity. With the latter, how do you know the total number of 
others with whom you are sharing the capacity? What happens when the 
underlying capacity is oversubscribed and you don't know it?

Why is peering in another continent a Good Thing when 80% of Internet 
traffic is now from the hyperscalers who are increasingly localized for 
their content delivery?

Lots of other potential research questions.

This is certainly an interesting public conversation to have and I'm 
glad it came up in the GAIA meeting.

Steve