Re: [Gen-art] Gen-ART Last Call review of draft-ietf-lamps-e2e-mail-guidance-14

Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net> Thu, 22 February 2024 21:29 UTC

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From: Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>
To: Paul Kyzivat <pkyzivat@alum.mit.edu>, draft-ietf-lamps-e2e-mail-guidance.all@ietf.org
Cc: General Area Review Team <gen-art@ietf.org>, last-call@ietf.org, spasm@ietf.org
In-Reply-To: <76d354b1-7016-4c37-9976-0ff2f0dc32c5@alum.mit.edu>
References: <1aa54ca6-d948-45d1-9963-4c1f5e878cdd@alum.mit.edu> <87jzmws1zq.fsf@fifthhorseman.net> <76d354b1-7016-4c37-9976-0ff2f0dc32c5@alum.mit.edu>
Autocrypt: addr=Daniel Kahn Gillmor; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xjMEZXEJyxYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdA5BpbW0bpl5qCng/RiqwhQINrplDMSS5JsO/YO+5Zi7HCi QQfFgoAMQWCZadnIAUJBdtHCwMLCQcDFQoIApsBAh4BFiEE1HcEDHDCFWpcKYVJu36RAUlea/ cACgkQu36RAUlea/edDQD+M2QjnoEyu/TjI+gRXBpXQ5jCsnnp9FdYhaSSUW/vZ8kBAJByWlj A9aMfVaVrmvgcYw7jzJz+gmZspBRB++5LZ20NzRc8ZGtnQGZpZnRoaG9yc2VtYW4ubmV0PsLA EQQTFgoAeQMLCQdHFAAAAAAAHgAgc2FsdEBub3RhdGlvbnMuc2VxdW9pYS1wZ3Aub3JnEu/CS CeyWwC6j4ihJr2u/z6delsF1pvYW3ufgf1L538DFQoIApsBAh4BFiEE1HcEDHDCFWpcKYVJu3 6RAUlea/cFAmWnX5AFCQXZ8EUACgkQu36RAUlea/cjVwD+ONjdHM74rAa6EEiiqaPjlptiaZx CVqFYXnib6EbZARkBAPnnR8pW8vCBnDXHKu65jNqwF3aH761NaOqqMFfppg8GzjMEZXEJyxYJ KwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAjX25Fq2Q9IUFeHy6yByIQPBnFOedFliuEiCIUzJsENDCwMUEGBYKAS1HF AAAAAAAHgAgc2FsdEBub3RhdGlvbnMuc2VxdW9pYS1wZ3Aub3JnwqKWsw56uoWVLIFcs7ZecJ gwpsSNevWCzbviKQ8yRLUCmwK+oAQZFgoAbwWCZXEJywkQdy0WHjXNS4FHFAAAAAAAHgAgc2F sdEBub3RhdGlvbnMuc2VxdW9pYS1wZ3Aub3JnEIJSOxuw2y/UJmg5M3BLpN0JYjODZpXiEVFu 1byARzMWIQR0vATEPYYIS+hnLAZ3LRYeNc1LgQAAsH8BAKg1C5LK/D7pSkXCD+jfTSP+CqM58 iHLjh4vKhpOKsTJAQCHldtEjxJ1ksPTFgG9HihHH7qc6/wvvLw77ETMpwlrAxYhBNR3BAxwwh VqXCmFSbt+kQFJXmv3BQJlp1+rBQkCF4lgAAoJELt+kQFJXmv3ydsA/2roQZ2Jm/7iUrg/2C5 ClWA/xbvPC31LyMkGGH2/rq8tAP9BgqLuCPnNTVPqeX9+9qqMmaFq7wmvjq5I+yycAw9CDc44 BGVxCcsSCisGAQQBl1UBBQEBB0BZMsRrRaaeFSYMF1ZdfRmVgBriDUIr99eDQ085BK14DgMBC AfCwAYEGBYKAG5HFAAAAAAAHgAgc2FsdEBub3RhdGlvbnMuc2VxdW9pYS1wZ3Aub3JnsazAWX tEHUPmSTmcRZAIsAsNiO8k0hdjsfRlRVipgJgCmwwWIQTUdwQMcMIValwphUm7fpEBSV5r9wU CZadfqwUJAheJYAAKCRC7fpEBSV5r90AjAPwLgY1iKiFJEj32SVD5f721929l79VxQB5FlQss x1n5kQEA6Uct2tPvbB6T7p5KG3Gl+tbi7oJAuxFmpkpW5/N2Owg=
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2024 16:28:59 -0500
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Subject: Re: [Gen-art] Gen-ART Last Call review of draft-ietf-lamps-e2e-mail-guidance-14
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On Thu 2024-02-22 15:41:35 -0500, Paul Kyzivat wrote:
> But I do encourage you to say *something* about web server based email 
> clients, since they are such a big part of the ecosystem.  (What 
> percentage of all emails have gmail on at least one end?) Perhaps 
> discuss the limitations on secure email with such clients.

I wouldn't want to delay the release of the draft on this, and i'd be
concerned about it blowing up into a large critique of the web
permissions model, which is really outside the scope of what we can
possibly review.

But i hear you that at least some reference to this as a concern might
be warranted.  I've noted this over at
https://gitlab.com/dkg/e2e-mail-guidance/-/issues/12 so there is a place
to keep track of the issue.

If you (or anyone reading this) wants to propose some short, well-scoped
text (either on this thread or in the issue), i'd be happy to review.

        --dkg