Re: [Gen-art] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-httpbis-bcp56bis-13

Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net> Fri, 13 August 2021 00:23 UTC

Return-Path: <mnot@mnot.net>
X-Original-To: gen-art@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: gen-art@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7A843A1022; Thu, 12 Aug 2021 17:23:42 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.101
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.101 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=mnot.net header.b=OvKLsV7w; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=S5rECawe
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wIfJrlLIRo0j; Thu, 12 Aug 2021 17:23:36 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.24]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 182F13A101F; Thu, 12 Aug 2021 17:23:35 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98681320089C; Thu, 12 Aug 2021 20:23:32 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 12 Aug 2021 20:23:32 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mnot.net; h= content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; s=fm3; bh=w 0HS0AzAnX86UZgcmSqqx0p/F0J2bIYrzxgwLONa4/8=; b=OvKLsV7w59VTFoa0z DTVlwm+jSZY5Tfl+4lxdMepA0fwvC+sMGwNOB6Rzf0rKmMkH0DVQYvJxMr9Bll95 n8Qw7l7wkweLpykDz0nTqXTxHcRwWYKX/2HxWHQQVR5oIqXgEBWfldvCODJ3W6VG TgBxJVdpdJlGGkMblQUIKCVVaFg+pwlZzA0F6Yea661G8rBv29d/bvENyd5cwwyV /O5fmI5JL9sE/npr2cUm9+mnZ2rBug1Bxt0B/y70b3xgU2sVmEOJwksaXnypCdw3 unkYD9xlzX93V7x9KH/hE+WvBHF9t3vwD9onGBHmmyhl+phQ7HmZb+1Y4OhxHA1r 0JqDA==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=w0HS0AzAnX86UZgcmSqqx0p/F0J2bIYrzxgwLONa4 /8=; b=S5rECaweMUNcItVFdkEJVWfZyN/qlZqr+JbgW5mRucxzBy8OG8VARH9Bm C4MzaXy3D3bwAV9grgKh4qEVdAgPB/TRrSe9gnXAeZp6K+kQPLiwMKmptaGOyrvN lUh0jh3tY/PcScRbM9xgx5UnGhEpBM8TK8b9h8AsGJ0rRuGISxHqQ/BX+bBa1cRB YUPSbhcGYiH0xvVdowq8xB+gHEdz8ieZOxMWe0I5b0OGoX5xfkgtw3dvw7F4ScAX W6p9omn6bBqURaSkvDNvWy1JtFbWYTlTz5Aqjnrn20Y0uzlgUy7LW0fpFgRDsilE u/vB0awornEv59FpSk6bjto5uvJfA==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:gbsVYSzaiUGWV7Gg9sYGCYnCJebhs2lR6NacNsI9HlkA2gUJL_3zvg> <xme:gbsVYeSIO1JVIFruGEhp4wyvO5jGUFTINra59v4AHoI4aJyIJRilbsTEEre9_9a2O YrgJkpKSkdsekSDgw>
X-ME-Received: <xmr:gbsVYUV55mGgS5-vPfgHqILMlhkgrdxTYxpG23JxFAj2fX_3KQ0bPjESe9lMOWgCz-527XIICN3OZY_jqSnO-r5hcQSBqDt7B7kYnTN3w8Fpi8_VnnuVoCTp>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvtddrkeeggdeffecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurheptggguffhjgffgffkfhfvofesthhqmh dthhdtvdenucfhrhhomhepofgrrhhkucfpohhtthhinhhghhgrmhcuoehmnhhothesmhhn ohhtrdhnvghtqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeehgfevtdegjeeiieduhfeugfffleffgf dtgeegueduffffiefhtdehieetteeludenucffohhmrghinhephhhtthhpmhgvthhhohgu shdrhhhofidphhhtthhpfihgrdhorhhgpdhgihhthhhusgdrtghomhdpmhhnohhtrdhnvg htnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepmhhn ohhtsehmnhhothdrnhgvth
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:gbsVYYgMlaYeSA57Jmypo9w3Jpn0PE3fwBu0_i9KHAdKPGGUz76IDg> <xmx:gbsVYUBKXJBJlzpWw_6sNZ9JxD9L8rLGqxvAq2q6xHeZisSac_gM6Q> <xmx:gbsVYZK559WqBwGCfNkOkDdTpzfwaN2JgzPBQSSbsauc2LnIF9C3vA> <xmx:hLsVYT5XDXRaqVtcfhZPJ5cbyrGFHawbchl6t8MyYecOT1Yix5Ph-A>
Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Thu, 12 Aug 2021 20:23:28 -0400 (EDT)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\))
From: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>
In-Reply-To: <162879336918.10574.10010152000496998787@ietfa.amsl.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2021 10:23:26 +1000
Cc: General Area Review Team <gen-art@ietf.org>, HTTP Working Group <ietf-http-wg@w3.org>, last-call@ietf.org
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <0F19E3C9-F6BC-4CF4-9209-FA698E4B8E3B@mnot.net>
References: <162879336918.10574.10010152000496998787@ietfa.amsl.com>
To: David Schinazi <dschinazi.ietf@gmail.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gen-art/5JJWIwgJR-47O7nn9ykasntQIdc>
Subject: Re: [Gen-art] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-httpbis-bcp56bis-13
X-BeenThere: gen-art@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "GEN-ART: General Area Review Team" <gen-art.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/gen-art>, <mailto:gen-art-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/gen-art/>
List-Post: <mailto:gen-art@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:gen-art-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gen-art>, <mailto:gen-art-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2021 00:23:43 -0000

Hi David,

Thanks for the feedback. Responses below.

> On 13 Aug 2021, at 4:36 am, David Schinazi via Datatracker <noreply@ietf.org> wrote:
> 
> Minor issues:
> * s4.5 seems to prohibit defining new non-generic HTTP methods. How do we
> reconcile that with the work happening in MASQUE? I know that CONNECT is its
> own special-case, but should we have a carveout here? (Though MASQUE might end
> up using extended CONNECT which side steps the issue). Or is it the case that
> MASQUE is modifying HTTP itself instead of building an application over HTTP?

That is only restating the requirements of HTTP:

'Unlike distributed objects, the standardized request methods in HTTP are not resource-specific, since uniform interfaces provide for better visibility and reuse in network-based systems [REST]. Once defined, a standardized method ought to have the same semantics when applied to any resource, though each resource determines for itself whether those semantics are implemented or allowed.' -- https://httpwg.org/http-core/draft-ietf-httpbis-semantics-latest.html#method.overview

'Standardized methods are generic; that is, they are potentially applicable to any resource, not just one particular media type, kind of resource, or application. As such, it is preferred that new methods be registered in a document that isn't specific to a single application or data format, since orthogonal technologies deserve orthogonal specification.' -- https://httpwg.org/http-core/draft-ietf-httpbis-semantics-latest.html#considerations.for.new.methods

That said, I don't see MASQUE as an application of HTTP; it's a generic extension.


> Nits/editorial comments:
> * s3.2 uses the term "link" without explaining what it is. Perhaps a reference
> to RFC 8288 if that's what is meant here? * s4.11 mentions HTTP/3 without
> referencing its specification

See:
  https://github.com/httpwg/http-extensions/commit/70c3ee4dde

Cheers and thanks again,


--
Mark Nottingham   https://www.mnot.net/