Re: [Gen-art] [tcpm] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-tcpm-rto-consider-14

Mark Allman <mallman@icir.org> Fri, 19 June 2020 15:03 UTC

Return-Path: <mallman@icsi.berkeley.edu>
X-Original-To: gen-art@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: gen-art@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 438753A0ACF for <gen-art@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 19 Jun 2020 08:03:01 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.651
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.651 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3FkTw40cLgZC for <gen-art@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 19 Jun 2020 08:02:55 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-qk1-f173.google.com (mail-qk1-f173.google.com [209.85.222.173]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3A9B23A0AB3 for <gen-art@ietf.org>; Fri, 19 Jun 2020 08:02:55 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-qk1-f173.google.com with SMTP id c185so9186745qke.7 for <gen-art@ietf.org>; Fri, 19 Jun 2020 08:02:55 -0700 (PDT)
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to :references:mime-version; bh=HvAQIra3/V0puHkJENGRZ5KxL3XayGwoA3uWafCkHhY=; b=pDvv47x8KKe22WCyY2ZdPFAnofynWhZeCK6lJw/udlPa6/70Jg1G2+7s//vuz43pt9 T/oTppWs0IEge86o9w2GOl8+PPhbCLO0hpP3MMR+bRrNSng/Q+XpCn4Iu1K+jHRvS+4b ZMaCO/7JglnYUBsY9jVrJE8kv03xph/vLXN3r1LpBP0aa56oFK8XHFSMjWAQ6+gy+c9O NNXxi3W/EIHFo5mEYsdKp7WAkSLuo0VYEUZw9CGHImf8P4h4PFx2izmPVDqn8M/dCU9O rv7eODih8VyUkLEKuosvwVeXHkyF6tgBYXDhWNeyCdBhSHAv9H0+PylskvTD6Wfo1omZ iM+A==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531SeP0njqAhFyH09alBBhnMDPNr0rEpFDGCpsr9/yYYTjpb+vDd Q+yW3WRY31LUHRUjh6LiC3edRw==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx0moR3ApoRq900XHsdK5oxaTUkbc0QyRJMBpZ9BEWx5N1JDpop/5fllOup/syBlqTWlGUvgg==
X-Received: by 2002:a37:7cc7:: with SMTP id x190mr4072967qkc.189.1592578974205; Fri, 19 Jun 2020 08:02:54 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.1.244] ([2600:1700:b380:3f00:d901:6b54:439d:ae8d]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g64sm6481194qtd.39.2020.06.19.08.02.50 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 19 Jun 2020 08:02:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Allman <mallman@icir.org>
To: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
Cc: Gorry Fairhurst <gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk>, Martin Duke <martin.h.duke@gmail.com>, tcpm <tcpm@ietf.org>, Review Team <gen-art@ietf.org>, Last Call <last-call@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-tcpm-rto-consider.all@ietf.org
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 11:02:49 -0400
X-Mailer: MailMate (1.13.1r5671)
Message-ID: <3C4FA33A-DD97-4DA4-898E-8C6A6E38BA88@icir.org>
In-Reply-To: <8C4B7C4D-7658-4219-856B-95D99473770B@gmail.com>
References: <159083802039.5596.14695350463305243689@ietfa.amsl.com> <FE0FA7D5-176D-4111-95DA-BD5424A24FE2@icir.org> <9A0DBDC4-2E39-4D09-80A6-FEDE72ED205B@gmail.com> <0F4B56B1-C8B9-493E-B3CD-AC2FBA9E62E4@icir.org> <CAM4esxTAMgUc4gfL-_Z2bjChjaHJGWL0F5VJn8Nd-=j2Zj5V_A@mail.gmail.com> <CAM4esxROPy-MX8_fu5inMvsKYVKR16jjTkAntt9qy=vfGM+mUg@mail.gmail.com> <EB54EC6A-418E-430F-91B1-C6832A606257@gmail.com> <522d1439-a24f-490a-6a5b-6544e024c969@erg.abdn.ac.uk> <8C4B7C4D-7658-4219-856B-95D99473770B@gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=_MailMate_1F1C435D-BBC3-4FAF-BA46-A029903C9C23_="; micalg="pgp-sha1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/gen-art/XM6rxRw_UWHAryNRysX4TWarmmI>
Subject: Re: [Gen-art] [tcpm] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-tcpm-rto-consider-14
X-BeenThere: gen-art@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "GEN-ART: General Area Review Team" <gen-art.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/gen-art>, <mailto:gen-art-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/gen-art/>
List-Post: <mailto:gen-art@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:gen-art-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gen-art>, <mailto:gen-art-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2020 15:03:08 -0000

I just posted a new version of rto-consider (-16).  The document,
diffs, etc. can be found here:

  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tcpm-rto-consider/

I fixed a few nits that had been pointed out throughout the
document.

The main work in this rev is in the first two paragraphs of the
intro.  I honed these based on the discussion with Stewart and
Gorry.  Well, "honed" might ultimately look like "rewrote" even if
that wasn't the process or exactly my intention. :) I tried to pull
some of the notions from later in the document up here to the front
of the document, as requested.  In particular, I brought forward the
notion of this document as a default and not as a one-size-fits-all.
I hope this addresses the concerns to a large extent.

I also want to make a meta point here, which is clearly about this
document, but also I think much more widely applicable.  I continue
to believe that the Internet has grown to what it is in no small
part because at many crucial points we chose generality over
optimality.  I do not believe we should shun generality---either in
terms of protocol development or the lessons we have learned.  That
doesn't mean we cannot acknowledge places where more pointed
solutions may be appropriate.  It doesn't mean we can't accommodate
different and non-general approaches in things like guidelines and
requirements.  But, I think it'd be a pity if we couldn't write
general documents because there are cases where they will be
suboptimal or not applicable.  There are always such cases.  And, if
that is the gate, we're going to design a network we won't much care
for, I think.  IMHO.  FWIW.

allman