Re: [Gen-art] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-link-overload-11

["Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <[e-mail]>]

If the WG consensus is for “GLS” so be it…but I would like to reemphasize two things:

1)There are use cases where the intent is NOT to shutdown the link

2)Once the link is shutdown the extension is no longer used since there is no longer an adjacency – so to me it makes a lot more sense to pick a name which reflects how the link is to be used while it is still up.

   Les



From: Pushpasis Sarkar [mailto:[e-mail]]
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2018 9:22 AM
To: Bruno Decraene <[e-mail]>
Cc: Shraddha Hegde <[e-mail]>; Acee Lindem (acee) <[e-mail]>; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <[e-mail]>; Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <[e-mail]>; Joel Halpern <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Genart last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-link-overload-11

Hi Joel et al,

+1 for 'graceful-link-shutdown'. Another possibility may be 'link-decommission'..

Thanks and regards
-Pushpasis

On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 7:09 PM, <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:


From: Shraddha Hegde
How about “graceful-link-shutdown” ?

Looks good to me.

Also, FYI, for BGP sessions, in the GROW WG we used the term “Graceful BGP session shutdown” and named the BGP community “GRACEFUL_SHUTDOWN” so this would align on the terminology.
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-grow-bgp-gshut-13

Best regards,
--Bruno


Rgds
Shraddha



From: Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:[e-mail]]
Sent: Friday, January 5, 2018 6:50 PM
To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; Joel Halpern <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Cc: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Genart last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-link-overload-11

It is not in “maintenance" mode yet as it is still being used. However, it is better than “overload”. “pending-maintenance” is a bit long which is why I suggested “pending-shutdown” since “shutdown” is term that vendors have used for eons to described an interface that is not in service.
Thanks,
Acee

From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Date: Thursday, January 4, 2018 at 11:56 PM
To: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>, Acee Lindem <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>, "Joel M. Halpern" <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>, "[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>" <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Cc: OSPF WG List <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>, "[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>" <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>, "[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>" <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Subject: RE: Genart last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-link-overload-11

Ketan –

“maintenance” I could live with.

“GIR” seems to not be generic enough.

   Les


From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2018 8:09 PM
To: Acee Lindem (acee) <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; Joel Halpern <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Cc: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Genart last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-link-overload-11

Hello,

May I suggest something more generic like “Maintenance Mode” or “Graceful Insertion/Removal (GIR) Mode” which could be defined so as to cover the multiple scenarios in question (e.g. pending shutdown, down for repairs, last resort due to poor link quality, etc.).

Thanks,
Ketan

From: OSPF [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee)
Sent: 05 January 2018 08:14
To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; Joel Halpern <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Cc: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [OSPF] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-link-overload-11

Hi Les,

From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Date: Thursday, January 4, 2018 at 9:26 PM
To: Acee Lindem <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>, "Joel M. Halpern" <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>, "[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>" <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Cc: OSPF WG List <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>, "[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>" <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>, "[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>" <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Subject: RE: Genart last call review of draft-ietf-ospf-link-overload-11


> >Minor issues:

> >    I understand the WG likes using the term "overload" for a link

> >being taken

> >    out of service.  I think people will learn what we mean.  I do wish

> >we had

> >    not chosen to misuse the words in this fashion.  This is much more a

> >    graceful-link-close indication (or clsoe-pending indication) than

> >it is an

> >    overload indication.

>

> I agree with this comment but I wasn’t sure we’d reach consensus on a

> better alternative. However, after some though and consideration of current

> OSPF router terminology, I’d propose we use the term “Pending-Shutdown”.

> Does anyone not agree that this is a more appropriate moniker for the TLV

> and state?

>

[Les:] I agree with Joel's comment. The use of the term "overload" is unfortunate.

But "pending-shutdown" isn’t appealing to me because - at least in most use cases - you aren't actually going to shutdown the link. What you are going to do is make a link the "link of last resort".

This seems a better choice.

That is not the use case - you are going to take the link down. It is not going to be the "link of last resort”, it is the currently the “link of last resort” and will imminently be taken down.




The suggestion from Shraddha that this term was borrowed from IS-IS isn't accurate. "overload" in IS-IS has a very different meaning - it indicates a node either has an incomplete LSDB or (a la RFC 3277<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__datatracker.ietf.org_doc_rfc3277_&d=DwMGaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=NyjLsr7JA7mvpCJa0YmPdVKcmMXJ31bpbBaNqzCNrng&m=7GM8zN1-Ff2au_agmHAkiNYK2R5Aji-EjpyT8gmgRYU&s=769ndBiWrwubwBNccNtOnDuHr1yMD-W10WuEarCDNgI&e=> )an incomplete forwarding plane.



The only use of "link overload" in IS-IS occurs in https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-reverse-metric-07#section-3.6<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__tools.ietf.org_html_draft-2Dietf-2Disis-2Dreverse-2Dmetric-2D07-23section-2D3.6&d=DwMGaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=NyjLsr7JA7mvpCJa0YmPdVKcmMXJ31bpbBaNqzCNrng&m=7GM8zN1-Ff2au_agmHAkiNYK2R5Aji-EjpyT8gmgRYU&s=r_8muG61-ePlkCbqf7qIcHUPHGtjWf_JOH1UXH7lp8U&e=> and this was added recently to support the (very useful) TE use case which was defined in https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-link-overload-11<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__tools.ietf.org_html_draft-2Dietf-2Dospf-2Dlink-2Doverload-2D11&d=DwMGaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=NyjLsr7JA7mvpCJa0YmPdVKcmMXJ31bpbBaNqzCNrng&m=7GM8zN1-Ff2au_agmHAkiNYK2R5Aji-EjpyT8gmgRYU&s=umZHmgXp6i4i0PAyZbsDS0iorBurDZsFIyvaVVXEHb0&e=> . When this was done the term "link-overload" was cut and pasted from the OSPF draft. I think this should also be changed in the IS-IS draft.

Agreed.

Thanks,
Acee



   Les



> Thanks,

> Acee

> >

> >

> >

>

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