Re: [GGIE] DRAFT bof proposal for IETF 98 in Chicago

["Livingood, Jason" <[e-mail]>]

I’ll add to what Glenn says with a somewhat different take. I agree that no one can commit until you know what the standards look like. But the problem statement frames a real problem and the challenges will grow more pronounced over time. If GGIE can deliver on some or all of the expected benefits then it’ll be obvious to content creators, distributors, network operators, and others to deploy it. Ultimately this is about the IETF agreeing to permit interested parties to come together to work on an interesting issue and tap the expertise of others at the IETF in the process. But like any other standards, no one can really predict adoption until the end of the process. In addition, there was a working version demonstrated at BnB last year and there is a plan for another demo at IETF-98 (assuming BnB is not canceled), so it’s not theoretical – there is working code. We’re also discussing the possibility of how to trial this technically in the Comcast production network (TBD).

Jason

On 2/8/17, 6:10 PM, "GGIE on behalf of Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)" <[e-mail] on behalf of [e-mail]> wrote:

    Hi Ben
    
    It seems awfully premature to ask if anyone would implement/deploy the results.   If we used that litmus we would not have been able to every work on either  IPv6 or dnssec.  (I mean that a little tongue in cheek, so hopefully no one throws anything at me in Chicago)
    
    The rest of questions seem fair, through more likely to get answers in person at an actual BoF versus a mailing list where discussion is often lower volume.
    
    Could you send a note to the list promoting for the sort of questions you are wondering about?
    
    Regards
    Glenn
    
    Sent from my iPad
    
    > On Feb 8, 2017, at 2:28 PM, Ben Campbell <[e-mail]> wrote:
    > 
    > Hi, Leslie, thanks for sending this.
    > 
    > The ART ADs would like to see comments on the following:
    > 
    > - Do you plan to work on this if it becomes a working group? That is, would you expect to engage in discussion, review drafts, or even possibly edit drafts?
    > 
    > - Are you likely to implement and/or deploy the results?
    > 
    > - Does the scope seem right? That is, does this all belong in one WG and/or area, or are there aspects that might belong somewhere else?
    > 
    > Of course, discussion on other aspects is also welcome.
    > 
    > Thanks!
    > 
    > Ben.
    > 
    > 
    >> On 8 Feb 2017, at 15:32, Leslie Daigle wrote:
    >> 
    >> Hi,
    >> 
    >> Please find below a proposal for a GGIE BoF (WG-forming) at IETF 98 in Chicago.  We will be submitting the proposal by the deadline this Friday, but would be happy to have suggestions to improve the proposal before then.
    >> 
    >> One of the things we’ve beed advised is that GGIE-proponents-other-than-Glenn-and-Leslie are pretty invisible to the IESG.  If there doesn’t seem to be other interest, there won’t be much justification for a BoF.
    >> 
    >> Now is the time, and here is the place, to voice your support for furthering this discussion!
    >> 
    >> Thanks,
    >> Leslie.
    >> 
    >> —8<——8<——8<——
    >> 
    >> Name: Glass to Glass Internet Ecosystem (GGIE)
    >> 
    >> Description:
    >> 
    >> Video is without rival the top use of Internet bandwidth, and its ever growing demand for more bandwidth easily out paces the new capacity being added both globally and regionally with no let up in sight.   Users are frustrated by quality, buffering, and stuttering problems. Video providers and access networks are investing heavily to keep up with demand.  Significant work has be done at the application layer producing more efficient codecs and innovative adaptive bitrate transports like MPEG-DASH.  These access investments and application layer work have helped but they alone have not been enough.
    >> 
    >> This BoF will introduce the Glass to Glass Internet Ecosystem (GGIE) which focuses on network level innovations to compliment the efforts at the application layer and access networks.  The proposed GGIE work includes enabling adaptive bitrate transports like MPEG-DASH to use IPv6 as their video segment addressing scheme which in turn permits use of advanced IPv6 network features such as Segment Routing.  A GGIE goal is to enabling video and network routing and management to work more cooperatively and efficiently to transport video, and to do so in a backward compatible ways to permit exiting devices and players to take advantage of the improved network efficiencies.
    >> 
    >> 
    >> 
    >>    Agenda
    >>    Agenda bash, scribe, minute taker [10min]
    >> 
    >>    Context setting [15min]
    >>        Highlights of the Internet Video Scaling Problem
    >>        Specific aims of the GGIE work
    >>        Relationship to other IETF activity
    >>        Relationship to work in other fora
    >>    
    >>        Overview of existing GGIE work — Network level proposals, demo  [50min]
    >>             - IPv6 Prefix addressing of MPEG-DASH packaged video
    >>             - Content identifier to content address mapping using MARS
    >>         - GGIE prototype demo
    >> 
    >>    Where from here? [45min]
    >>        Known open questions
    >>        Potential for IETF work — is there interest to pursue?
    >>        If applicable: Discussion of draft charter for WG
    >>        
    >> 
    >>        Demo of GGIE prototype
    >>        Q&A & Discussion
    >> 
    >>    Status: WG Forming
    >>    Responsible AD: Ben Campbell
    >>    BoF proponents: Glenn Deen / Leslie Daigle
    >>    BoF chairs: TBD
    >>    Number of people expected to attend: TBD
    >>    Length of session (1, 1.5, 2, or 2.5 hours): 2 hours
    >>    Conflicts to avoid (whole Areas and/or WGs): DISPATCH WG and TBD
    >>    Links to the mailing list, draft charter if any, relevant Internet-Drafts, etc.
    >>        Mailing List: ​https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ggie
    >>        Draft charter: see below
    >>        Relevant drafts:
    >>            draft-deen-daigle-ggie-02 :  Glass to Glass Internet Ecosystem Introduction
    >>        draft-rose-deen-ggie-use-cases-00 : GGIE Internet Video Use Cases        
    >>        draft-daigle-deen-ggie-uri-snaptr-00 :  Glass to Glass Internet Ecosystem URI and S-NAPTR Use
    >>        draft-deen-naik-ggie-men-mpeg-dash-00 : Using Media Encoding Networks to address MPEG-DASH video (This is expired, but we can easily re-spin, or wait for WG input).
    >> 
    >> 
    >> 
    >> 
    >> Glass to Glass Internet Ecosystem (GGIE) -- Draft Charter
    >> 
    >> Due to its size and sensitivity to network conditions, the transport of video over the Internet has highlighted a significant scalability problem for the Internet.  Addressing this scalability problem requires better integration between application transport and networking technologies and leveraging IPv6.  The GGIE working group will define a set of fundamental building blocks bridging video application use of the network and core network services of addressing, routing, and naming. Through standardization, of such fundamentals, a common base platform for new interoperable innovation on video transport efficiency and scalability will be enabled.
    >> 
    >> The scalability problem is driven by both professional and user generated content, fortunately both types of content use the same transport technologies which permits the working group’s output to apply equally to them. Likewise, in addition to the use the network to transport video for viewing, the network is extensively used in video creation workflows of capture and editing, and distribution workflows of encoding, packaging, and distribution to edge caches for playback.   The working group will address both viewing and creation/distribution workflows.
    >> 
    >> To that end, the GGIE working group will define missing pieces of Internet technology standards, as well as provide pointers to use of existing standards.
    >> 
    >> Specifically, the GGIE working group will:
    >> 
    >> + complete an overview document outlining the GGIE problem statement and general solution approach
    >> + develop a set of use cases representative of GGIE problem scope
    >> + develop a standardized URI for referring to specific media objects within a domain
    >> + develop a standardized means for mapping IPv6 addresses to video data
    >> + develop a media address resolution service protocol (MARS) to map URIs and addresses for video
    >> + provide a mechanism for discovering media address resolution services
    >> + document integration methods with lower level fundamental network services (eg. routing)
    >> + develop media encoding network (MEN) definitions for video packaging such as MPEG-DASH
    >> + illustrate how these technologies address the use cases already developed for GGIE
    >> 
    >> Out of scope are:  video technologies including codecs, digital rights management, and DRM enforcement technologies.
    >> 
    >> 
    >> 
    >> -- 
    >> 
    >> -------------------------------------------------------------------
    >> Leslie Daigle
    >> Principal, ThinkingCat Enterprises LLC
    >> [e-mail]
    >> -------------------------------------------------------------------_______________________________________________
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