Re: [homenet] write up of time without clocks

I think we are talking about different issues here, the point is security requirement to avoid the CPEs to be easily “controlled” for attacks …

Regards,
Jordi

-----Mensaje original-----
De: homenet <homenet-bounces@ietf.org> en nombre de "Howard, Lee L" <Lee.Howard@charter.com>
Responder a: <Lee.Howard@charter.com>
Fecha: viernes, 4 de noviembre de 2016, 15:42
Para: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>, Tim Chown <Tim.Chown@jisc.ac.uk>, "homenet@ietf.org" <homenet@ietf.org>
CC: "hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net" <hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net>, Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>, "rbarnes@mozilla.com" <rbarnes@mozilla.com>
Asunto: Re: [homenet] write up of time without clocks

    On 11/4/16, 8:11 AM, "homenet on behalf of JORDI PALET MARTINEZ" <homenet-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of jordi.palet@consulintel.es> wrote:

    >I guess the problem is that this document is NOT targeted to CPEs:
    >
    >      In principle these requirements apply to all hosts that connect to
    >      the Internet, but this list of requirements is specifically
    >      targeted at devices that are constrained in their capabilities,
    >      more than general-purpose programmable hosts (PCs, servers,
    >      laptops, tablets, etc.), routers, middleboxes, etc.  While this is
    >      a fuzzy boundary, it reflects the current understanding of IoT.  A
    >      more detailed treatment of some of the constraints of IoT devices
    >      can be found in [RFC7228].
    >
    >Not sure if we want a separate document, as it seems to me that the requirements are very close or we may need to reword a bit the text above to make it more clear, etc.

    We already have a separate document: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7084 "IPv6 CE Router Requirements"

    It says CPE router SHOULD support 6rd and SHOULD support DS-Lite.

    Lee

    >
    >Also is BCP the way if we want authorities to mandate it?
    >
    >Saludos,
    >Jordi
    >
    >
    >-----Mensaje original-----
    >De: homenet <homenet-bounces@ietf.org> en nombre de Tim Chown <Tim.Chown@jisc.ac.uk>
    >Responder a: <Tim.Chown@jisc.ac.uk>
    >Fecha: viernes, 4 de noviembre de 2016, 12:43
    >Para: "homenet@ietf.org" <homenet@ietf.org>
    >CC: "hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net" <hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net>, Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>, "rbarnes@mozilla.com" <rbarnes@mozilla.com>
    >Asunto: Re: [homenet] write up of time without clocks
    >
    >    
    >    
    >    
    >    Hi,
    >    
    >    
    >    On 4 Nov 2016, at 08:34, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es> wrote:
    >    
    >    Exactly. Same as we have regulations like UL, FCC, EC, etc., the same certifications must care about a minimum set of security, upgradeability, etc., features.
    >    
    >    So the extra cost for the vendors is almost cero if we are talking about the same certifications entities, just new test added to the actual sets.
    >    
    >    If you don’t comply the certification, your products will not be accepted in customs from a very high number of countries, so you will be somehow forced to follow them.
    >    
    >    The question here, is homenet the right venue for creating those minimum requirements?
    >    
    >    
    >    
    >    
    >    
    >    
    >    Perhaps contribute to draft-moore-iot-security-bcp-00?
    >    
    >    
    >    See https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-moore-iot-security-bcp-00
    >    
    >    
    >    This was submitted at the Seoul deadline.  Authors copied.
    >    
    >    
    >    Tim
    >    
    >    
    >    
    >    Regards,
    >    Jordi
    >    
    >    
    >    -----Mensaje original-----
    >    De: homenet <homenet-bounces@ietf.org> en nombre de "STARK, BARBARA H" <bs7652@att.com>
    >    Responder a: <bs7652@att.com>
    >    Fecha: jueves, 3 de noviembre de 2016, 21:19
    >    Para: Markus Stenberg <markus.stenberg@iki.fi>, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
    >    CC: Philip Homburg <pch-homenet-2@u-1.phicoh.com>, "homenet@ietf.org" <homenet@ietf.org>, Juliusz Chroboczek
    >     <jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr>
    >    Asunto: Re: [homenet] write up of time without clocks
    >    
    >    
    >    Yes, I agree it's possible to do better, but what's the incentive for
    >    a bottom-feeding vendor of cheap devices to bother?
    >    
    >    
    >    
    >    I hate to say this, but how about legal solutions? 
    >    
    >    
    >    
    >       My reading of the tea leaves: either the industry creates its own certification plan, or the regulators will do it for us.
    >       Here is a data point:
    >       https://www.euractiv.com/section/innovation-industry/news/commission-plans-cybersecurity-rules-for-internet-connected-machines/
    >       In the US, both the FCC and FTC are showing keen interest.
    >       I'd rather the industry get there first.
    >       And, BTW, it's also been suggested that devices list their "end of life" date when they're sold. After which no updates may be provided. And remotely-triggered "kill switch" may be used if a bad vulnerability is discovered after that date.
    >    
    >       Another recommendation is default passwords be unique per device, and not easily determined from MAC address, firmware revision, etc., and be changeable.
    >    
    >       That is, it's not just about upgradability. It is also passwords, encryption, and messaging/promises/guarantees that are made.
    >       Just like cars now have seatbelts, front and side airbags, crumple zones, and lemon laws.
    >       There are a number of industry whitepapers coming out on this topic, and conferences/meetings being held. It's all the rage right now.
    >    
    >    
    >       Barbara
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