Re: [homenet] write up of time without clocks

I guess the problem is that this document is NOT targeted to CPEs:

      In principle these requirements apply to all hosts that connect to
      the Internet, but this list of requirements is specifically
      targeted at devices that are constrained in their capabilities,
      more than general-purpose programmable hosts (PCs, servers,
      laptops, tablets, etc.), routers, middleboxes, etc.  While this is
      a fuzzy boundary, it reflects the current understanding of IoT.  A
      more detailed treatment of some of the constraints of IoT devices
      can be found in [RFC7228].

Not sure if we want a separate document, as it seems to me that the requirements are very close or we may need to reword a bit the text above to make it more clear, etc.

Also is BCP the way if we want authorities to mandate it?

Saludos,
Jordi

-----Mensaje original-----
De: homenet <homenet-bounces@ietf.org> en nombre de Tim Chown <Tim.Chown@jisc.ac.uk>
Responder a: <Tim.Chown@jisc.ac.uk>
Fecha: viernes, 4 de noviembre de 2016, 12:43
Para: "homenet@ietf.org" <homenet@ietf.org>
CC: "hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net" <hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net>, Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>, "rbarnes@mozilla.com" <rbarnes@mozilla.com>
Asunto: Re: [homenet] write up of time without clocks

    Hi,

    On 4 Nov 2016, at 08:34, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es> wrote:

    Exactly. Same as we have regulations like UL, FCC, EC, etc., the same certifications must care about a minimum set of security, upgradeability, etc., features.

    So the extra cost for the vendors is almost cero if we are talking about the same certifications entities, just new test added to the actual sets.

    If you don’t comply the certification, your products will not be accepted in customs from a very high number of countries, so you will be somehow forced to follow them.

    The question here, is homenet the right venue for creating those minimum requirements?

    Perhaps contribute to draft-moore-iot-security-bcp-00?

    See https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-moore-iot-security-bcp-00

    This was submitted at the Seoul deadline.  Authors copied.

    Tim

    Regards,
    Jordi

    -----Mensaje original-----
    De: homenet <homenet-bounces@ietf.org> en nombre de "STARK, BARBARA H" <bs7652@att.com>
    Responder a: <bs7652@att.com>
    Fecha: jueves, 3 de noviembre de 2016, 21:19
    Para: Markus Stenberg <markus.stenberg@iki.fi>, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
    CC: Philip Homburg <pch-homenet-2@u-1.phicoh.com>, "homenet@ietf.org" <homenet@ietf.org>, Juliusz Chroboczek
     <jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr>
    Asunto: Re: [homenet] write up of time without clocks

    Yes, I agree it's possible to do better, but what's the incentive for
    a bottom-feeding vendor of cheap devices to bother?

    I hate to say this, but how about legal solutions? 

       My reading of the tea leaves: either the industry creates its own certification plan, or the regulators will do it for us.
       Here is a data point:
       https://www.euractiv.com/section/innovation-industry/news/commission-plans-cybersecurity-rules-for-internet-connected-machines/
       In the US, both the FCC and FTC are showing keen interest.
       I'd rather the industry get there first.
       And, BTW, it's also been suggested that devices list their "end of life" date when they're sold. After which no updates may be provided. And remotely-triggered "kill switch" may be used if a bad vulnerability is discovered after that date.

       Another recommendation is default passwords be unique per device, and not easily determined from MAC address, firmware revision, etc., and be changeable.

       That is, it's not just about upgradability. It is also passwords, encryption, and messaging/promises/guarantees that are made.
       Just like cars now have seatbelts, front and side airbags, crumple zones, and lemon laws.
       There are a number of industry whitepapers coming out on this topic, and conferences/meetings being held. It's all the rage right now.

       Barbara
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